Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,092,431 times
Reputation: 1028
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl
But the problem is geographically parts of Missouri are located touching other southern states or at the same latitude. Like Kentucky the most northern part of the state is at the same latitude as Bowling Green MO almost. Although most say nothern KY is basically Midwestern anyways.
then you have SW MO that touches Oklahoma which some argue is almost western, then you have Sikeston, southward that touches Ky, TN, AND the southern part of the bootheel thats just over an hour and a half away from the deep south state of Mississippi going south on I55!
So thats why I comment that Missouri isn't fully a Midwestern state when you have the southern parts of Missouri that geographically are south.
If lets say during the civil war Missouri was split in half like WV with Stl northward being our version of WV "Pro Union" and a South MO, by todays standards South Missouri would be viewed as a southern state geopgraphically.
Latitude is meaningless when classifying culture. The Ohio River acts as a boundary between northern and southern, running in a southwesterly direction, with the culture roughly following it. Culture doesn't follow a straight line.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,092,431 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl
I have read though for years people have wanted to split Missouri in half at the rivers like West Virginia is.
Missouri though kind of is one of those states like Oklahoma, or Texas. Like Texas modern day most think is a Southwestern state and don't think of dixie when they think of texas. Even though parts of Texas should be lumped in with the south IMO. Just like El Paso for example is NOT southern. Same way with Missouri far NW Missouri in the Platte purchase area is NOT southern but southern Missouri and southeast MO is southern.
thats why I hate the census thing and lumping entire states in a single region. The entire state of MO should not be lumped into the Midwest. Especially Southeast MO geographically on down to the bootheel.
Many have argued that the Great Plains states and Ohio shouldn't be lumped into the Midwest either, nor all of Illinois or Indiana. Missouri is not the only state in the Midwest that doesn't lean 100% Midwestern.
Many have argued that the Great Plains states and Ohio shouldn't be lumped into the Midwest either, nor all of Illinois or Indiana. Missouri is not the only state in the Midwest that doesn't lean 100% Midwestern.
true, but MO has hella lot more leanings towards southern than IL or IN have. It's just a few counties in each of those states, and their southern leanings are nothing like the Bootheel which is 100 percent southern. Alexander county IL is the only county I can think of and THBGunner I think maybe a comment Alexander county is more southern than about 80 percent of MO.
Also Missouri had a lot more Jim Crow laws than any other Midwestern state. Their Jim Crow laws were similar to KY and WV and MD. Well actually I think MO had more than WV and MO was the closest state of them all to nearly pass a poll tax in the early 1900s. If this were 1910 I think there would be a more of a debate to if MO was southern or Midwestern. Based on old historical reading it seems around the 1920s is when Missouri started being called Midwestern more. Books, old articles, ect 100-120 years ago still seemed to favor lumping Missouri as more southish still compared today we get called Midwestern. Like here in St. Louis most businesses have MidAmerica or Midwest in their names. In southern Missouri I notice businesses tend to have "Mid South" or "Southern" and I've seen a few businesses with Dixie in their names once you get near US 60.
I also noticed that in a couple of my textbooks in the past considering Missouri more southern in historical text and the civil war.
Latitude is meaningless when classifying culture. The Ohio River acts as a boundary between northern and southern, running in a southwesterly direction, with the culture roughly following it. Culture doesn't follow a straight line.
IN modern text I agree. Well a little ways north of the Ohio River too because of Southern IL and IN, and when it empties into the MS River by Missouri little ways north too because Scott County and Cape Girardeau is north of that and still southern. Then you can follow US 60 into the Ozarks with areas just north of it and going south are pretty much dixie. As I said before starting at Cape Girardeau is the dixie starting point in Southeast MO, and the rest, Ozarks within 50 miles of the AR border which is just little ways north of US 60 in most areas.
IN modern text I agree. Well a little ways north of the Ohio River too because of Southern IL and IN, and when it empties into the MS River by Missouri little ways north too because Scott County and Cape Girardeau is north of that and still southern. Then you can follow US 60 into the Ozarks with areas just north of it and going south are pretty much dixie. As I said before starting at Cape Girardeau is the dixie starting point in Southeast MO, and the rest, Ozarks within 50 miles of the AR border which is just little ways north of US 60 in most areas.
idk....Cape Girardeau is still ever so slightly more midwestern than southern. It's close though I will give you that. I identify as a Southerner but I'd think slightly more people from my home county would identify as midwestern.
idk....Cape Girardeau is still ever so slightly more midwestern than southern. It's close though I will give you that. I identify as a Southerner but I'd think slightly more people from my home county would identify as midwestern.
I can certainly see that because Cape is a medium sized city so you likely have many people from St. Louis and points northward that live there, go there a lot that dilutes the native population so I can see why they wouldn't identify as southerners.
Cape certainly feels more southern than Miami or Tampa to me!
I live in St. Louis and the times I've driven that stretch of I55 you can feel the change quickly as you begin to approach Cape Girardeau and certainly picks up a more true southern mentality rather quickly and more so as you head south. Cape on down the rest of the stretch of the state on I55 just feels so much different I guess due to the topography. I drove that stretch in 2003 around Oct 15-25 ish on the way to and from FL. While Stl and areas were begining to have some decent fall colors, once you got into Cape Girardeau county and the elevation began to get lower the fall colors lessend. Once we hit Cape and came thru the rest of the bootheel, the trees had hardly any colors on them at all, and still seemed, and felt like a late sept day. Even the trees in the smokey mountains, and in central and Eastern KY, and especially GA were turning nice colors.
Rather boring drive in the delta areas with little to see.
I can see why you identify as a southern though since you're native from around there and not some northerner.
Btw I was wondering have you ever heard of Alligators were ever native in far SE MO? I have read that some summers they have been seen in the MS river in the bootheel in far southern parts near hayti, and they are being seen in memphis now sometimes too and even Jonesboro a large gater was found dead and thats near the MO border. I've read a couple places on the internet said that Alligators used to even range all the way up to far southern IL around Cario many years ago.
Alligators can withstand pretty harsh temps and it rarely ever gets to 0 in the bootheel and the cold temps dont last long like they do up here.
They're trying to increase the gator population in arkansas and I was looking at a map and there has been a couple known sighting areas in NE AR near Missouri of gators. Infact a couple sightings in two of the counties that border Dunklin County.
I also have to wonder if the bootheel was slightly warmer over 100 years ago due to all the swamp and water. Because water keeps temps up. Not a huge difference but maybe 1,2 degrees the most. Its amazing though how much warmer the lowlands of SE MO are once you get off the Ozark Plateau.
I can certainly see that because Cape is a medium sized city so you likely have many people from St. Louis and points northward that live there, go there a lot that dilutes the native population so I can see why they wouldn't identify as southerners.
Cape certainly feels more southern than Miami or Tampa to me!
I live in St. Louis and the times I've driven that stretch of I55 you can feel the change quickly as you begin to approach Cape Girardeau and certainly picks up a more true southern mentality rather quickly and more so as you head south. Cape on down the rest of the stretch of the state on I55 just feels so much different I guess due to the topography. I drove that stretch in 2003 around Oct 15-25 ish on the way to and from FL. While Stl and areas were begining to have some decent fall colors, once you got into Cape Girardeau county and the elevation began to get lower the fall colors lessend. Once we hit Cape and came thru the rest of the bootheel, the trees had hardly any colors on them at all, and still seemed, and felt like a late sept day. Even the trees in the smokey mountains, and in central and Eastern KY, and especially GA were turning nice colors.
Rather boring drive in the delta areas with little to see.
I can see why you identify as a southern though since you're native from around there and not some northerner.
Btw I was wondering have you ever heard of Alligators were ever native in far SE MO? I have read that some summers they have been seen in the MS river in the bootheel in far southern parts near hayti, and they are being seen in memphis now sometimes too and even Jonesboro a large gater was found dead and thats near the MO border. I've read a couple places on the internet said that Alligators used to even range all the way up to far southern IL around Cario many years ago.
Alligators can withstand pretty harsh temps and it rarely ever gets to 0 in the bootheel and the cold temps dont last long like they do up here.
They're trying to increase the gator population in arkansas and I was looking at a map and there has been a couple known sighting areas in NE AR near Missouri of gators. Infact a couple sightings in two of the counties that border Dunklin County.
I also have to wonder if the bootheel was slightly warmer over 100 years ago due to all the swamp and water. Because water keeps temps up. Not a huge difference but maybe 1,2 degrees the most. Its amazing though how much warmer the lowlands of SE MO are once you get off the Ozark Plateau.
I think the alligator sightings in SEMO are a myth. Not sure which county your talking about that borders Dunklin but if it's Mississippi you have to remember that Mississippi County, AR is a huge county.
Cape Girardeau has always had a significant German Catholic population that has kept the midwestern culture in Cape. You also have to remember in the last several years many people have moved to Cape from the bootheel and surrounding states. The culture isn't changing much it doesn't seem. Cape is southern in certain ways, especially food. But a sizable amount of locals speak the typical Missouri dialect, not quite the same as St. Louis but definitely more midwestern than southern. Typically the people from the southern side of the county start to have a stronger southern accent than midwestern accent, but it really occurs in pockets. Certain communities favor one dialect over the other. The city of Cape transitions anyway since the south side of Cape is influenced by a rural black culture, which I will agree is characteristic of the south.
City of Cape Girardeau:
Ancestries: German (28.1%), Irish (10.7%), United States (10.6%), English (8.0%), French (3.6%), Dutch (2.2%).
Still a bit of a stretch.
Last edited by GunnerTHB; 10-04-2011 at 07:24 AM..
Thats because those cities are full of Yankees and retirees.
True. I lived in Naples for 10 years same way. Well except it seems few people speak english in Naples. Have to learn spanish.
Naples, even the locals, and few that are native don't even have a accent. they sound flatter than around here. Except for people from the Northeast and the NY accent.
In ocala what is your version of Hoosiers? When I lived in FL it was to call someone a Florida Cracker. At school we would call each other Florida crackers because it was supposed to be an insult that you're white trash. But yea in Southwest Florida if you went around wearing Confederate stuff most people thought you were white trash and laugh. We maybe had three rednecks in my entire school and they stuck out.
Do you consider yourself a Yankee? I don't I'm from a slave state, Confederate state so I don't consider MO a yankee state. Although when it comes to the deep south people from Tennessee, Kentucky are considered yankees by many.
True. I lived in Naples for 10 years same way. Well except it seems few people speak english in Naples. Have to learn spanish.
Naples, even the locals, and few that are native don't even have a accent. they sound flatter than around here. Except for people from the Northeast and the NY accent.
In ocala what is your version of Hoosiers? When I lived in FL it was to call someone a Florida Cracker. At school we would call each other Florida crackers because it was supposed to be an insult that you're white trash. But yea in Southwest Florida if you went around wearing Confederate stuff most people thought you were white trash and laugh. We maybe had three rednecks in my entire school and they stuck out.
Do you consider yourself a Yankee? I don't I'm from a slave state, Confederate state so I don't consider MO a yankee state. Although when it comes to the deep south people from Tennessee, Kentucky are considered yankees by many.
We call the rednecks Forest People around here, because of the Ocala National Forest.
My husband is a Cracker (and proud of it), because he is a native Floridian, a very rare breed down here.
Why in the world would I consider myself a Yankee?
I'm not from the North East, I am a Missouri Midwestern hybrid.
My father was from St Louis, my mother from Poplar Bluff, so, I consider myself to be a hybrid between the 2 cultures.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
