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Old 10-08-2010, 07:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
It certainly is true that over time nationality (or regionalism) takes precedence over bloodlines. You saw that during the American Civil War in Appalachia when Ulster Scots in TN, VA, NC, and GA fought heavily for the Confederacy while their kinfolk in KY, WV, PA, and MD fought heavily for the Union.
actually eastern tennessee was of majority union support. they even tried to secede from tennessee like WV did with VA. but certianly over time shared ancestry in southern appalachia and other parts of the south loses its value, and people start to identify more with their region of the USA rather than their european heritage. i dont think that had anything to do with where they sided in the civil war though. people fought even against members of their immediate family in the civil war, with fathers going union and sons going confederate. i dont think anybody at all gave a damn what the other ulster scotts were doing when it came time to decide which side they would fight for.

going back to an earlier post of yours, rather than a "mixed european" option, id almost like to see a "british isles" option on the census. i believe that would cover a lot of the areas that mark "american" on the census.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:48 PM
 
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What was the role of Scottish people in the development of the KKK? Last ime I checked Scottish people where from northern parts of the British Isles, why then do they feel like natives here in North America?
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:10 PM
 
124 posts, read 271,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
It certainly is true that over time nationality (or regionalism) takes precedence over bloodlines. You saw that during the American Civil War in Appalachia when Ulster Scots in TN, VA, NC, and GA fought heavily for the Confederacy while their kinfolk in KY, WV, PA, and MD fought heavily for the Union.
The differences between Lowlander and Highlander Scots can be traced back to the Revolutionary War as well. The Battle of Moore's Creek Bridge (preserved as a national battlefield site in NC) highlights the clash between Highlander Scotsmen (Loyalists to the monarchy) against the Patriots (which included Lowlander Scots, among others).

On a side note to plug NC -- the battlefield is a very educational and scenic place to visit.

Moores Creek National Battlefield (U.S. National Park Service)

I also think that because the Scots were here so early during the settlement of the US, that the typical "Scottish" characteristics, and perhaps you could even say culture, became somewhat integral to the general term "American". I don't think their immigration has been forgotten in select places such as NC and TN, but it does seem frequently overlooked in larger discussions of the country's founding and its historical immigration patterns.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:54 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,254,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobalTrader View Post
What was the role of Scottish people in the development of the KKK? Last ime I checked Scottish people where from northern parts of the British Isles, why then do they feel like natives here in North America?
A fair amount of Scottish came here before the American Revolution so, in a sense, those are among the original natives of the United States.

I don't know how much a role they played in the Klan, but I imagine some as they were generally white and Protestant.
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Old 10-10-2010, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Do you think Scottish Americans are the "invisible immigrants"? Also, why do so many Scottish Americans refuse to embrace their ancestor's heritage?
I'll go with "the plaid skirts."

But seriously, if there are so many of Scottish/Irish descent, like here in the South, you are not some minority group trying to assert your heritage. You are the culture.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:34 PM
 
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One of the main reasons is a simple one - White Americans are a mixed lot as far as Ethnic background goes. If you are White and you can trace your ancestry back to the 1800s then there is basically a 0 chance of you being directly descended from just English or Scotish people, you have some Irish in there somewhere, some German and possibly Italian. Same deal with Italian-Americans . Ask one sometime and it quickly turns out their dad is half Polish or something along those lines.

Besides that people also tend to choose the most exotic ethnic group that is part of their background, which is usually German, Irish and Italian in that order. English/Scotish to many people comes across as plain or vanilla.
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,254,149 times
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Blacks in America are also mixed, by definition, so they rarely use specific ethnic terms at all. This is because the ethnic groups brought from Africa were basically put in a situation where they had to mix and sometimes had to mix with whites. Obama is a rare case where he does know the African people he descended from, the Luo of Kenya, but even then he is not referred to as a "Luo-American."

Actually I'm not sure many groups in the US lack ethnic mixture. Possibly the Hopi have a fair amount of pure-bloods as I seem to recall they avoided assimilating to Spain, Mexico, then the US. The Apache were also pretty resolute in their independence. And of course the Amish are highly interbred Swiss-Germans.
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Americans of "Scots-Irish" ancestry have very little in common with Ulster Protestants from Northern Ireland who are not a large group in the US. There are Orange Order chapters in the US but I'd suspect they're made up of Ulster Protestants and not the descendants of people who crossed the pond over two centuries ago.

I'd suspect that some of the Brits who came to Southern California's beach areas after WW2 were Scots
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:19 PM
 
509 posts, read 609,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyJohnWilson View Post
actually eastern tennessee was of majority union support. they even tried to secede from tennessee like WV did with VA. but certianly over time shared ancestry in southern appalachia and other parts of the south loses its value, and people start to identify more with their region of the USA rather than their european heritage. i dont think that had anything to do with where they sided in the civil war though. people fought even against members of their immediate family in the civil war, with fathers going union and sons going confederate. i dont think anybody at all gave a damn what the other ulster scotts were doing when it came time to decide which side they would fight for.

going back to an earlier post of yours, rather than a "mixed european" option, id almost like to see a "british isles" option on the census. i believe that would cover a lot of the areas that mark "american" on the census.
European-American is a far better word for White Americans than "mixed european is". Why it is not used already I dont know, but there is no better word for what a White American is than that. The Census could break the European-American tab down into sub categories though just as they do for Asian-Americans. For Asians - Japan/China/Korea/India etc is already on there as sub categories for Asian-American. For European-Americans the sub categories could be - British Isles [England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland], Romance countries [France/Spain/Italy/Portugal], Nordic nations [Sweden/Norway/Denmark], Germanic nations [Germany/Netherlands/Austria], Eastern European etc.

And if you are just a typical American mutt of various European backgrounds just check European-American.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Northern Ireland
53 posts, read 58,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
Americans of "Scots-Irish" ancestry have very little in common with Ulster Protestants from Northern Ireland who are not a large group in the US.
Confused with that comment

People in America today who class themselves as ''Scots-Irish'' and those of today's Ulster Protestants have alot in common, both are descended from plantation settlers into Ulster.

I know that a branch of my family moved to the states in the 1740's. so how can we have nothing in common?
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