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Old 07-07-2018, 04:00 PM
 
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Here's an article written by a University Professor on the subject:

Quote:
Just Who Were the Scots-Irish?

October 14, 2010. 2010

By: Carolyn L. Barkley

One of the students in my fall genealogy course commented last week that “My family always says that our ancestors are Scotch-Irish – whatever that means.” In that one sentence, she unwittingly defined the problem with the term “Scotch-Irish,” or more appropriately stated, “Scots-Irish.” The term implies an individual of blended Scottish and Irish origin, but this deduction cannot be further from the truth. First, the term is uniquely American with a clearer descriptor being the term “Ulster Scots.” To understand the Ulster Scots and their history, and eventually to identify your Ulster Scot ancestor, you will need to learn about the political and socio-economic framework within which they existed.

The first clarification is that they were not Irish, but rather Scots from the Lowlands of Scotland. They were Presbyterians, not Catholic.

Why, then, did these Presbyterian Scots come to Ulster in northern Ireland, and why did they later leave their homes in Ireland to come to North America?

Geographically, the northern part Ireland is separated from Scotland by a mere twenty miles and this proximity brought with it constant conflict between Scotland and England and the native – and Catholic – Irish. After James I of England (and VI of Scotland) ascended the English throne in 1603, he believed that it was critical to devise a plan that would enable him to concentrate his military resources elsewhere, without the distraction of warfare with the Irish. His solution was to invite Presbyterians from the Lowlands of Scotland, in addition to some English, German and French Protestants, to emigrate and settle in what became known as the “Plantation of Ulster.” By doing so, he not only would be able to control a large portion of Ireland, but would also be able to exercise tighter control over the Borders in Scotland. His plan was facilitated in 1607 by the “Flight of the Earls,” who left Ireland to seek help from Spain and Rome in resisting English control. When they were unable to return, their lands became forfeit to the crown. The first settlers arrived in Ulster in 1609 when Hugh Montgomery and James Hamilton, both lairds in Ayrshire on Scotland’s west coast, began to implement the King’s plan. These lands granted to the settlers, however, were not vacant and large numbers of native Irish were displaced. The areas being settled included the present-day counties of Donegal, Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh, Down, Tyrone, Coleraine (Londonderry) and Antrim.

The plantation plan proved successful and by 1619, approximately 8,000 emigrants had sailed the short distance to Ulster. These settlers proved quite industrious and established towns and farms, as well as industry and commercial interests. Life, however, was not idyllic and was characterized, instead, by a series of crises and threats, not the least of which were uprisings on the part of the native Irish Catholic population, who deeply resented the encroachments and who viewed the Protestant “incomers” as heretics. This resentment erupted, from time to time, as in the major insurrection of 1641. Nevertheless, the Scots lived in Northern Ireland for slightly over a century.

The five waves of “The Great Migration” out of Ireland by the Ulster Scots that began in 1717 were caused by a combination of political, economic and religious factors.

• The English landlords were Anglican and realized a large percentage of their income from tithes payable by all, regardless of religion. As Protestants, the Ulster Scots were not members of the official church, a variety of laws restricted their religious and political rights.

• The Scots settlers had established farms that they had continued to improve through almost four generations. In 1717, as the first group of 100-year leases came due for renewal, the landlords, in a process known as “rack-renting,” raised the rents on the improved lands to such an exorbitant extent that many farmers could no longer afford to remain on the land.

• Six years of drought occurred between 1714 and 1719 and three consecutive potato crops failed in 1724, 1725, and 1726. A famine in 1740 led to almost 400,000 deaths.

• The growth in the Irish woolen and linen industry began to threaten those industries in England and Parliament’s Wool Act of 1699 represented a severe financial setback to Ulster Scots whose money was tied to this industry.

These factors, when combined, made the perilous and expensive voyage to North America less of an obstacle than that of remaining on their land that now cost an enormous amount in rents and had become impoverished due to continued crop failures and drought. For those who tried to remain, the ensuing famine represented the tipping point, with entire protestant communities setting sail in search of land, religious tolerance, and a better life in general.

The first wave of migration (1717-1718) saw about 5,000 leave Ulster; the second (1725-1729) was larger. The individuals migrating during these two time periods tended to enter through Philadelphia and the Delaware River. Conflicts flared between these individuals and the Quakers and Germans already living in these areas, and so the third wave (1740-1741) was characterized by a push to the west, across Pennsylvania into the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia and then on into the Carolinas. They would later move into Georgia, Kentucky and Tennessee in the years following the American Revolution. The effect of Ireland’s 1740 drought would be the single most significant factor driving migration for the following ten years. The fourth and fifth waves (1754-1755 and 1771-1775) spring, in large part, from effective propaganda from America which took two forms: encouragement from family members already in America and relocation schemes promulgated by several North Carolina governors, among others. During those years close to 250,000 individuals migrated. Throughout the Great Migration, the desire for religious freedom, distance from organized government, and land ownership propelled the Ulster Scots out of Ireland. Perhaps not surprisingly, they were almost always supporters of American independence.

The term “Scots-Irish” and/or “Ulster Scot” became less used as the original settlers became assimilated into the mainstream of American life. It would not regain importance as a descriptor until the nineteenth century brought new waves of Irish immigrants during the potato famine. Individuals whose ancestors had settled in the United States as a result of “The Great Migration” felt the need to distinguish themselves from these new waves of immigrants who were Gaelic Irish, not Scots; Catholic, not Presbyterian; and who tended to settle in groups in cities such as New York and Boston, rather than in the Mid-West and South as had the Ulster Scots. By some estimates as many as twenty-seven million Americans can claim Protestant Ulster Scots origins. Their ancestors made an indelible mark on American history, including such diverse individuals as Davy Crockett, Sam Houston, Andrew Jackson, Stonewall Jackson, Mark Twain, John Wayne, and Woodrow Wilson, among others.

Irish research is not a simple task. Research into your possible Ulster Scots heritage may be slightly less difficult if you can establish where your ancestor came from, during what time period, and to which religion he or she professed. If you can trace him or her to a location within the confines of the Ulster Plantation and substantiate that he or she was Presbyterian, you will be able to focus your research more readily. The social status of your ancestor and the survival of records for a particular area will probably govern the success of your research.

You may wish to look at the Scotch-Irish Central website for a series of links to research institutions and resources, and at the website of the Ulster History Foundation. In addition, the following print resources will also be of assistance.

• The Book of Scots-Irish Family Names by Robert Bell (Belfast: The Blackstaff Press, 1997).
• Heroes of the Scots-Irish in America by Billy Kennedy (Londonderry: Causeway Press, 2000).
• Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research by Margaret Dickson Falley. 2 volumes in 3 (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1998).
• The Scotch-Irish: A Social History by James G. Leyburn (Chapel Hill, N.C.: University of North Carolina Press, 1962).
• Scotch-Irish Family Research Made Simple by R. G. Campbell, rev. ed. (Summit Publications, 1987).
• The Scotch-Irish in America by Henry Jones Ford (Bibliobazaar, 2009).
• Scotch-Irish Migration to South Carolina, 1772 (Rev. William Martin and His Five Shiploads of Settlers by Jean Stephenson (Baltimore: Clearfield, 2009).
• The Scotch-Irish of Colonial Pennsylvania by Wayland F. Dunaway (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 2007).
• The Scotch-Irish or The Scot in North Britain, North Ireland and North America by Charles Augustus Hanna. (Nabu Press, 2010).
• Scotch Irish Pioneers in Ulster and America by Charles Knowles Bolton (Nabu Press, 2010).
• The Scots-Irish in Pennsylvania and Kentucky by Billy Kennedy (Londonderry: Causeway Press, 1998).
• The Scots-Irish in the Hills of Tennessee by Billy Kennedy (Londonderry: Causeway Press, 1995).
• The Scots-Irish in the Shenandoah Valley by Billy Kennedy (Londonderry: Causeway Press, 1996).
• Scots-Irish Links, 1575-1725, Parts One-Seven by David Dobson (Baltimore: Clearfield, 2007-2009).
• Later Scots-Irish Links, 1725-1825, Parts One-Three by David Dobson (Baltimore: Clearfield, 2003-2006)
• Scots-Irish Links, 1825-1900 by David Dobson (Baltimore: Clearfield, 2009).
• A Short History of Ulster by Sean McMahon (Cork: Mercier Press, 2000).
• Scottish and Scotch-Irish Contributions to Early American Life and Culture by William C. Lehmann (Port Washington, N.Y.: Kennikat Press, 1978).
• Ulster Emigration to Colonial America, 1718-1775. (Ulster Historical Foundation, 2010).
• Ulster Sails West by William F. Marshall (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1996).
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:28 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
English= From England

British= English, Welsh and Scottish

Calling a Scot British is like calling a Texan American

Calling a Scot English is like calling a Texan a Marylander
But calling all British "Scots", and calling the English "Scots", is something no one would ever do. Therefore, the terms aren't interchangeable.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
I think that Baptist and Pentecostal denominations in the south mainly appeared because the Presbyterian Church couldn't supply enough preachers to the American frontier. This is because the Presbyterian Church required a college education, so they couldn't keep up with the expansion of the frontier.

Also, I agree with the poster that said that many southerners mistakenly think they have Irish ancestry. I've also heard people say that say they have German ancestry, but it is actually Dutch.
Actually, you are correct GunnerTHB. I found an article about Texas Scots which backs your theory. It says how many of the Scottish Presbyterians, who emigrated to the American South, became born-again Baptists. It doesn't say if the Scottish Americans started the Baptist Church or if the just converted to it. I'm assuming that they actually started it? I will post the article below, with that section highlighted in bold letters:

Quote:
Sam Houston. You can start there when naming the Texans with ancestors from Scotland.

Even Chief Bowles, the revered Texas Cherokee leader killed at the Battle of the Neches in 1839, was of mixed Scot and Indian heritage. The chief was described as "decidedly Gaelic in appearance, having light eyes, red hair and somewhat freckled."

You can go on to name Stephen F. Austin, Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie, Jim Hogg, J. Frank Dobie, and, of less fame, Neil McLennan, John and Ewen Cameron, Edmund D. Montgomery, Jesse Chisholm – and John Wesley Hardin.

Scottish games in Arlington
Scottish games in Arlington. Photo by Andy Scott.
Most of these figures would mention "Scotch-Irish" as a distinction, but, just the same, the Celtic blood line goes back to the land of plaid kilts and "Mc" clans.

Scotch-Irish are those Scots who moved to Northern Ireland in the 1600s and moved on to other lands in the 1700s when they would not succumb to the "Anglican ascendancy" or mix with "papish Catholics" in Ireland. More than 250,000 of these Scotch-Irish emigrated to the American colonies between 1717 and the American Revolutionary War. These Presbyterian "Scotch-Irish" were the majority of settlers who first moved over the Appalachians. Men such as Daniel Boone. And they kept moving. To Kentucky. To Tennessee. To Missouri. And, eventually into Texas.

During their continual migration, their formal religious ties dissolved into the individualistic, churchless American milieu of the early 1800s, and many would be born-again as Baptists or converted by the Methodist itinerant preachers of the frontier.

These are the Scotch-Irish whose numbers get mixed up with ambiguous references to "British" colonists, and "Irish" ancestors, and "Anglo-American" settlers.

Later, especially when ranching came to define Texas in the late 1800s, eager and ambitious Scots came directly from Edinburgh and Aberdeen to raise cattle and build railroads – and make money.

The 1990 U.S. Census, 5.4 million Americans claimed Scottish ancestry; one third of them lived in the South. Another 5.6 million respondents identified Scotch-Irish ancestry, almost half of whom lived in the South. This was in a four-region division of South-Northeast-Midwest-West.

In the same 1990 census, the massive impact of Americans of Scotch-Irish descent continued to be obscured. The census found that Southerners comprise one third of the 39 million Americans identifying "Irish" ancestors. And, then there were the 1.1 million of "British" ancestry. These broad labels probably conceal many Scottish ancestors. This Southern stock is the core group of "Anglo-American" Texans.

Rarely coming or settling in groups, 100-proof Scot-Texans have begun to celebrate their ethnic heritage only in the last part of the 20th century with annual "highland games" and festivals in various parts of the state.

The Scottish festivals involve not only athletic competition but also feature music, especially piping and drumming, as well as dance and food.

The longest running and probably best-known include the Scottish Games in Salado. The annual fete, sponsored by the Central Texas Area Museum, is held in November.

The Texas Scottish Festival and Highland Games at the University of Texas in Arlington are held each year in early June.

The Mo-Ranch Day of the Scots in Hunt is in September.

The state's largest city, Houston, holds its annual British Sports Festival and Scottish Highland Games annually in the spring.

The Institute of Texan Cultures' annual Folklife Festival in San Antonio includes the Scottish legacy in its August celebrations.

— written by Robert Plocheck, associate editor, for the Texas Almanac 1998–1999.



SOURCES
Chronicles of Smith County, "The Cherokee War 1839," by Morris S. Burton.

Sword of San Jacinto, by Marshall De Bruhl, Random House, 1993.

Lone Star, by T.R. Fehrenbach, MacMillan, 1968.

The Irish Texans, John Brendan Flannery, Institute of Texan Cultures, 1980.

Texas Highways, "Scottish Texans – A Feisty Bunch," by Candace Leslie, June 1992.

https://texasalmanac.com/topics/cult...otscotch-irish
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:28 PM
 
73 posts, read 29,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
One of the main reasons is a simple one - White Americans are a mixed lot as far as Ethnic background goes. If you are White and you can trace your ancestry back to the 1800s then there is basically a 0 chance of you being directly descended from just English or Scotish people, you have some Irish in there somewhere, some German and possibly Italian. Same deal with Italian-Americans . Ask one sometime and it quickly turns out their dad is half Polish or something along those lines.

Besides that people also tend to choose the most exotic ethnic group that is part of their background, which is usually German, Irish and Italian in that order. English/Scotish to many people comes across as plain or vanilla.

The part about those with ancestors immigrating in the 1800s not being able to be wholly of English ancestry actually isn't true. A significant number of English Mormons immigrated to Utah and Idaho after converting to the LDS Church in the 19th Century. Although some of their descendants mixed primarily with Scandinavian (Danish and Swedish) Mormons, many if not most Mormons in this region, are probably wholly descended from 19th Century English immigrants, probably mixed with those of Yankee New England English heritage who were also prominent in Early American Mormonism. To this day Utah, remains the state with the Highest (reported) English ancestry at 27%, far ahead of any Southern State.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:08 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
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This obsession Americans have with heritage is silly in my opinion. You don't have some rich historical tie to Scotland just because your great great great grandpappy came from Scotland. And no, "Scottish Americans" aren't forgotten. If you move here or have lived here you're American. You don't have to compensate and say you're <insert country name>-American to be "interesting". Most other places, people are comfortable being themselves and don't have to label themselves and everyone around.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:38 PM
 
73 posts, read 29,366 times
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Originally Posted by WestForkGrant View Post
This obsession Americans have with heritage is silly in my opinion. You don't have some rich historical tie to Scotland just because your great great great grandpappy came from Scotland. And no, "Scottish Americans" aren't forgotten. If you move here or have lived here you're American. You don't have to compensate and say you're <insert country name>-American to be "interesting". Most other places, people are comfortable being themselves and don't have to label themselves and everyone around.

I don't think identifying with one's ancestral heritage has anything to do with wanting to be interesting or not. Unlike other countries that you mention, recent immigration is the primary source of America's population, so to identify as "American" isn't a true descriptor. Everyone with US Citizenship is American by Nationality, yes, but unlike China or the Congo, whose indigenous inhabitants are the majority of the population, the majority of the American population is not indigenous, similar to places like Canada, Australia, Argentina, and Israel. That is the point of why we ask an Ancestry question on the Census and the point of identifying oneself as an x-American.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:30 PM
Status: "The best view is after the hardest climb." (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Wonderland
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Originally Posted by ChicagoAngelo View Post
This could also be true. I'm not too familiar as to how the Baptist denomination came about. I do know it was a denomination that was started here in the U.S.
No, the SOUTHERN BAPTISTS were a branch of the Baptist church that started in Amsterdam (with an English expat pastor).

It spread from there to England and from England to the US.
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
No, the SOUTHERN BAPTISTS were a branch of the Baptist church that started in Amsterdam (with an English expat pastor).

It spread from there to England and from England to the US.
You're right, I just read about it's history. But like I said before, I don't know much about the Baptists, I just know that the Scottish who came here, who were labeled by English Americans as Scots-Irish, as a derogatory term, were Presbyterian. I didn't know that many of these Scots converted to Baptists when they came here, until another poster here mentioned it. I looked it up and found that what he said was correct, that many Scots converted to the Baptist religion, and I think Pentecostal, and I assumed that they started those denominations here. But like I said, I wasn't sure about it because I'm not too familiar with the history of the Baptist Church.
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:37 AM
 
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Baptists as a religious group started out as a Separatist group of English Protestants founded by John Smyth in 1609. The first prominent American Protestant though was Roger Williams who left Puritanism and became a Baptist in the 1630s, created a scandal in Massachusetts, and leaving to form the Colony of Rhode Island.

The Southern Baptist Church wasn't formed until just before the Civil War, when the Baptist Church in the United States split over the issue of slavery. It remains split today, with the Southern Baptist Convention and the American Baptist Church USA being the largest predominantly White Baptist Groups. There are also Free Will Baptists, Regular Baptists, as well as the major Black denominations such as the National Baptist Convention, Missionary Baptists etc.

Most Scots Irish immigrants were Presbyterian when they came here, if they were attached to any formal church at all. Most Americans early in our nation's history were Christians generally, but outside of Congregationalists in New England, rates of formal church affiliation were quite low until the Second Great Awakening in the early 19th Century, which was strongly oriented towards Baptists and Methodists, who gained exponentially in numbers. To this day, these are the two largest Protestant denominations in America, including among those of Scots Irish descent.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:50 AM
Status: "The best view is after the hardest climb." (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Wonderland
42,395 posts, read 33,875,589 times
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Originally Posted by oihamad View Post
Baptists as a religious group started out as a Separatist group of English Protestants founded by John Smyth in 1609. The first prominent American Protestant though was Roger Williams who left Puritanism and became a Baptist in the 1630s, created a scandal in Massachusetts, and leaving to form the Colony of Rhode Island.

The Southern Baptist Church wasn't formed until just before the Civil War, when the Baptist Church in the United States split over the issue of slavery. It remains split today, with the Southern Baptist Convention and the American Baptist Church USA being the largest predominantly White Baptist Groups. There are also Free Will Baptists, Regular Baptists, as well as the major Black denominations such as the National Baptist Convention, Missionary Baptists etc.

Most Scots Irish immigrants were Presbyterian when they came here, if they were attached to any formal church at all. Most Americans early in our nation's history were Christians generally, but outside of Congregationalists in New England, rates of formal church affiliation were quite low until the Second Great Awakening in the early 19th Century, which was strongly oriented towards Baptists and Methodists, who gained exponentially in numbers. To this day, these are the two largest Protestant denominations in America, including among those of Scots Irish descent.
Right. At least 100 years ago, my Scots-Irish ancestors in America became Methodists and have been ever since.
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