Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Saying Scottish are British is like saying Canadians are Americans. they may share the same island, but they are two different countries.
It's not the same, Canada and the USA aren't in the same island but in the same continent. I don't think there is an other example of an island divided in several countries maybe Haiti and the Dominican Republic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
- originally a higher % of population in Canada was of Scottish descent
- The Revolutionary War chased many of the Scottish colonists into Canada
- the remaining folks of Scottish descent bred with people of English, German, Dutch, etc. descent over the next 250 years
I know many people in Canada identity themselves of Canadian ancestry, it's like southerners who considers themselve of American ancestry, generally those people are of British ancestry.
About Scottish Americans I read somewhere that they didn't immigrate in huge number compared to Scotch-Irish. Most of Scottish ancestry in America comes via Ulster (Northern Ireland). Demographers estimated the number of Scottish Americans to be around 20-25 million and the number of Scotch-Irish Americans to be around 27-30 million. If you add up the two the number is around 45 million.
I partially trace back to some Scottish, German and Dutch families in Brooklyn and the NYC area. Not many people associate Scottish ancestry with Brooklyn, but its there. I was overshadowed by that other Celtic group that came later, the Irish Catholics. Of course the South is heavily Scottish. The frontier cowboys/outlaws of the West were heavily Scottish as well. Terms like "fixin" come from Scotland, as do "insults" like redneck (some say it means West Va. miners, but it could mean Presbyterian red collars), cracker (comes from a word for "speak" - "crack a joke", etc.), and hillbilly (supporters of King William III = "billy").
I don't think anyone forgot Scotland in the South. There are plenty of Highland Games and other Scottish events there.
I don't know if the Scottish ancestry is as big as the Scots-Irish or the English but I'm sure it's not forgotten. I traced my entire family line on both sides recently. All from the south and most from before 1800. Didn't really see any Scottish surnames though. Mostly English and some German.
About Scottish Americans I read somewhere that they didn't immigrate in huge number compared to Scotch-Irish. Most of Scottish ancestry in America comes via Ulster (Northern Ireland).
agreed.
i've read quite a bit about the history of south carolina (as an example) -- basically you had a small wave of "Scottish" arrive very early in Charleston, who were mostly well-educated clergy that set up the first schools and churches. (i have a male ancestor who moved from Argyll to Charleston, SC in 1669, for instance.)
then somewhat later, just prior to the revolutionary war, you had waves of 'scots irish' / 'ulster scots' (who in many cases were protestants from france and germany) that began to settle the SC backcountry.
So a modern white american southerner is probably going to be Scots-Irish and English primarily, and only have a small and obscure "Scottish" ancestry that's been heavily diluted.
Despite making up between 20 to 35% of the Caucasian American population only 3% of Americans list "Scottish" as their main ancestry. As a genealogy hobbyist I am surprised how often people are surprised when I tell them their last name is Scottish.
Do you think Scottish Americans are the "invisible immigrants"? Also, why do so many Scottish Americans refuse to embrace their ancestor's heritage?
I can answer that very easily. It's not that they don't know that they are Scottish, but rather because they mistakenly think that they are Irish.
Most of your southerners, like in Kentucky, Tennessee, and the surrounding regions, who some of which also later migrated to the north to work in the industrial north, are of Scottish ancestry. These Scots briefly were settled in Northern Ireland by the English to set up a buffer between the English and the unruly Irish. There they were known as the Ulster Scots.
Getting tired of being attacked by the Irish on one side, and taxed to death by the English on the other side, most of them emigrated to the U.S. and spread out into the southern Appalachian states like Kentucky, Tennessee, etc. When they arrived in the states, the American English settlers started calling them Scots-Irish. So to this day most Scottish Americans mistakenly think that they are Irish because of this confusing label.
I had a childhood friend who would always refer to himself as Irish. One day when we were in high school, he visited his grandparents in Kentucky with his parents. When he came back, he told me that he found out from his grandparents that he was really Scottish.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard people whose families were originally from the south, say that they are Irish. I would just think of my friend and think how sad it is that they don't know their true ancestry. It's sad, because American southerners, who are of Scottish decent, have a lot to be proud of in their ancestry. It's these southerners who basically shaped America.
So it's not because most of them don't want to embrace their ancestor's heritage or that they just don't care about their heritage, it's because most of them mistakenly think they are Irish because of the confusing Scots-Irish label. Actually, I once read an article that stated that of all Americans that identify themselves as Irish, more than half of them are actually Scottish. Hope this helps clarify things.
P.S. Another way to tell is by religion. I'd say that 99.9% of people who are Presbyterian and call themselves Irish are really Scottish, and just don't know it. Presbyterianism is a Scottish religion. 99.9% of people who are Catholic and call themselves Irish, really are Irish. The Irish are Catholics.
P.P.S. Also, all your famous southerners like Daniel Boone, Jack Daniels, Harley Davidson, Davy Crockett, Willie Nelson, Andrew Jackson, etc., etc., were all of Scottish decent.
Basically, if your family came from the south, and especially if you're Presbyterian, you're of Scottish ancestory.
Last edited by ChicagoAngelo; 07-06-2018 at 10:00 PM..
Ulster Scots ( Scots Irish) are of lowland Scots and North English descent and were known as planters sent by a Scottish King of Britain, Scots Irish was a derogatory term by Yankees , (mixture of early Dutch ,English and yes Scottish descended) The Cracker is from North England, noisy, (The Irish adopted Craic)there were 6 English counties sent to Ulster, Cumberland , Yorkshire,Durham, Northumberland,Lancashire and Berwickshire.
Hence Cumberland Gap and many other English place names. English is always down played as we are seen to be nasty snobby and aggressive. as Chic mentions. The largest ethnic group in the South came from the English Midlands plus with thousands of English and Scottish and Ulster indentured serveants
A good read is- Seed Of Albion.
But all Southerners are a mixture of Scots English Ulster German French poss Indian. There is no such thing as a pure English or Scottish anyhow
Not exactly true and you probably just pissed off a lot of people. Scotland was never part of the UK or Great Brittain until just a hundred or 2 hundred years ago. Someone with more knowledge will likely explain this.
Yes it is true Great British is the Island not the country.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
