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Old 07-12-2007, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,505 posts, read 3,846,599 times
Reputation: 931

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Ok, I was trying to find the exact definition of a metro area so we could clear some of this up. Here is the definition from the OMB.

Quote:
Metropolitan Statistical Areas have at least one urbanized area of 50,000 or more population, plus adjacent territory that has a high degree of social and economic integration with the core as measured by commuting ties.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/bulletins/fy2007/b07-01.pdf (broken link)

Metro areas are not simply cities that are next to each other, the key here is economic integration with the core. The definition is vague but it seems that the standard is that the various cities and counties must have a workforce exchange of 15 to 25 percent to be considered a single metro area. The link above goes on to state that local opinion is considered in the definition so there is not a single threshold.

This explains why some metro areas seem smaller than people think. Unless the definitions change, I think it will be unlikely that for example Los Angeles and San Diego will become one metro, or that New York and Philly will. After all, is it really likely that LA will have a workforce exchange of %15 with San Diego? Or that New York will with Philly?
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 2,608,438 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureCop View Post
Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, Calif. are not considered a part of LA's metro. If you want to do it that way, then New York's current metro population is over 23,000,000. And LA is not growing twice as fast as NYC according to your information. Even though I read things wrong, you made things up by saying LA's growing twice as fast.

And by 2015, NYC will join with Philly.
LA's CSA! That is what I said. LA CSA is growing twice as fast. Add up those numbers and see.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Fairfax
2,880 posts, read 6,170,043 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by milquetoast View Post
First of all, I'd like to kill this idea of interstate metro areas. That's just a stupid idea that can't be backed up accurately at all! Not by daytime work numbers, not by commuter traffic patterns, nothing! You live where you live. If you have multiple tax returns in different states for whatever reasons, that can't be used accurately to differentiate between primary and secondary residences. Where your head hits the pillow at night is where you live, and I'm dumbfounded by everyone's innability to understand how other heads in other states are counted by cities elsewhere. MSA's and CMSA's are P O S's., and, really, if it weren't for New York's assertion to count out of staters to boost it's own head count ( backup fantasy ), then they would be a slight distant second to a Greater L. A. area that doesn't go out of state for it's head count. As for San Diego, city or metro, it's mid-sized. My stats are accurate, but then, can any database really be? The California Dept. of Finance is more scared than biased, truly. And how come international immigration isn't taken seriously in California but if it came through Ellis Island, oohhhh..so romantic, so proud!! But, you're right, patterns change all the time. It may actually take until 2020 until New York reaches 9 million. Or, it may go back to 7.3 million. Again. Can't see L. A. settling anytime soon.
Haha are you serious? You're not gonna "kill" interstate metros because they exist whether you like them or not. The reason they count areas in a metro is not just because they are contiguous but for commuting and Tv/radio audiences. Your logic is flawed because the only reason greater LA is in one state is because Cali is huge. The Northeast is full of small states and every year states lose some of their importance as an entity. Also, you are just using your opinion in saying that SD is a mid-sized city. And you might want to check your stats again because Sandiego-Tijuana is not larger than Philly's msa.

No one's saying LA isn't huge but NY still leads by a couple million (20+ mill to 18 mill) Do to the growing unpopularity I can't see LA ever overtaking NY.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Fairfax
2,880 posts, read 6,170,043 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
Ok, I was trying to find the exact definition of a metro area so we could clear some of this up. Here is the definition from the OMB.



http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/bulletins/fy2007/b07-01.pdf (broken link)

Metro areas are not simply cities that are next to each other, the key here is economic integration with the core. The definition is vague but it seems that the standard is that the various cities and counties must have a workforce exchange of 15 to 25 percent to be considered a single metro area. The link above goes on to state that local opinion is considered in the definition so there is not a single threshold.

This explains why some metro areas seem smaller than people think. Unless the definitions change, I think it will be unlikely that for example Los Angeles and San Diego will become one metro, or that New York and Philly will. After all, is it really likely that LA will have a workforce exchange of %15 with San Diego? Or that New York will with Philly?

Good post. It's tricky though to distinguish metro areas. You are right by saying Philly and NY will never have a 15% exchange but you have to take into account that Philly has a huge exchange among its immediate suburbs, which have exchange on its outlying suburbs and exurbs which are/will be connected to New York's suburbs. Where to draw the line? Also you may see more and more people living in philly for the lower housing price and working in NY for the higher paycheck by train.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Henderson NV
1,134 posts, read 914,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureCop View Post
Whoa whoa whoa! Twice as fast? I don't think so. According to this, NYC is growing faster than LA.
The fastest growing U.S. cities - Jun. 28, 2007
I'm busy right now so I'm going to post replies at a slightly slower pace, but here is an example. CNN is the perfect example of a New York entity. Anyone who thinks that they are still based in Atlanta is, fooling themselves to put it mildly. And anyone who thinks that a government agency can't be lobbied by any single location for the sake of money or influence, those people don't know how government works. Everyone lobbies the government for something, mostly other people's money. When that happens, it won't be small eastern states who will lose their prominence year after year, it will be actual cities who will lose their very name. Cities like Newark, Philadelphia, maybe even Boston! CNN's article dated a few weeks ago undercut the city population of L. A. by over 150,000, then went on to become a puff piece for N.Y. ( surprising, as New York based national media that is supposed to represent the nation, never throws in a little self gratification ). Understand this. Heads in cities in other states are not counted twice, they are counted once- for someone else. Now that is wrong! Because big cities in other locations lose their name and their identity. Keep these metropolitan areas within the states they reside, and then I will be satisfied. As to this perceived crap of L. A. being unpopular, just ask the hundreds of thousands of expatriates from New York how they feel. Yes, they pee their pants out in the street every time the ground jumps a little, but once L. A. is rebuilt after this ' big one ' some people in the east are counting on, these ' tough ' New York people will rebuild this rather necessary location. Smiley face!!
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 2,608,438 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by decafdave View Post
Haha are you serious? You're not gonna "kill" interstate metros because they exist whether you like them or not. The reason they count areas in a metro is not just because they are contiguous but for commuting and Tv/radio audiences. Your logic is flawed because the only reason greater LA is in one state is because Cali is huge. The Northeast is full of small states and every year states lose some of their importance as an entity. Also, you are just using your opinion in saying that SD is a mid-sized city. And you might want to check your stats again because Sandiego-Tijuana is not larger than Philly's msa.

No one's saying LA isn't huge but NY still leads by a couple million (20+ mill to 18 mill) Do to the growing unpopularity I can't see LA ever overtaking NY.
Except the LA area is growing faster than the NY area (MSA). If you go by CSA's, then the LA area is growing by 1.5 million every six years.
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:25 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,813,738 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureCop View Post
You can't count Mexico. It's not America. That just doesn't seem right.
The United States is not the only country in "America". So, in fact, Mexico is in America....for that matter, so is Canada and every other country in North and South America. We are all Americans.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:34 PM
 
606 posts, read 2,778,500 times
Reputation: 134
Detroit is already making a comeback in population and Philly is losing, so here it is:

1. NYC-- 20,000,000
2.LA --10,000,000
3.Chicago--8,500,000
4.Houston--8,200,000
5.Pheonix--4,800,000
6.Dallas--4,600,000
7.Detroit--2,500,000
8.San Diego--2,450,000
9.Philadelphia--1,950,00
10.San Jose--1,920,000
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 36,462,881 times
Reputation: 2147483647
I was the Process Engineering Manager for the largest Telecommunications builder in the US. We were in Grand Prairie Texas. Located exactly half way between Dallas and Ft Worth. We built all the harness and cables and jumpers for Southwest Bell, Pacific Bell, Applied Materials (harness for their clean room chip manufacturing robots) computer cables (molded). When 9/11 happened, we had millions of bucks worth of orders by 11 oclock. When the trade center collapsed, it took out a major trunk that fed Wall Street. We had them up and running in 48 hours with hundreds of miles of cable complete with molded ends so all they had to do was plug and play.


I say WERE. The company wanted to be able to discount cables. Over 1100 employees. The company moved the manufacturing to Mexico. Didn't invite any of us to go with it. Although, they did have about 10 of us go down to Mexico and train those nice folks on how to build harness. That was the most gloomy 6 weeks I ever spent.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:26 AM
 
150 posts, read 645,326 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Detroit is already making a comeback in population and Philly is losing, so here it is:

1. NYC-- 20,000,000
2.LA --10,000,000
3.Chicago--8,500,000
4.Houston--8,200,000
5.Pheonix--4,800,000
6.Dallas--4,600,000
7.Detroit--2,500,000
8.San Diego--2,450,000
9.Philadelphia--1,950,00
10.San Jose--1,920,000
Are these city limits or metros? because if its city limits i cant see Houston or Chicago or anyother city on that list for that matter grow that much that quick, if its metros Chicago and DFW already have more than that in their metros.
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