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That "magical line" is the line that determined what was "southern" to begin with. It is not up for people stereotypes and bias and the line clearly cuts off NJ.
Wow, no. The line never had anything to do with separating North from South. Do people even read the threads they post in? I explained what the Mason Dixon Line really is, and why it doesn't even matter on the bottom of the first page. It's just a line drawn by the Crown in England all they way across the ocean to settle territorial disputes between the colonies, that's it.
If the line means anything, then is West Virginia Southern? Is Delaware? If the history of what "was Southern" means so much, then I guess it was really telling when Delaware unanimously voted against secession and joining the South, and when Maryland followed suit and voted the idea down too.
Not that that stupid line ever meant anything, but the Midwest was once the West, boundaries shift.
It sounds like for a lot of people, "Southern" is more a state of mind than a geographical location. At least in theory, there could be "Eastern" or "Northern" towns to the south of Washington and "Southern" towns to the north of it.
For what it's worth, I spent a few years in Vermont and heard a woman there refer to her daughters living "down South" in Connecticut and New Jersey.
Wow, no. The line never had anything to do with separating North from South. Do people even read the threads they post in? I explained what the Mason Dixon Line really is, and why it doesn't even matter on the bottom of the first page. It's just a line drawn by the Crown in England all they way across the ocean to settle territorial disputes between the colonies, that's it.
I live in Maryland and have been here for decades. The truth is I don't remember anyone making a big deal out of the Mason-Dixon line. It's simply a border between states. We don't think anything more of it.
Wow, no. The line never had anything to do with separating North from South. Do people even read the threads they post in? I explained what the Mason Dixon Line really is, and why it doesn't even matter on the bottom of the first page. It's just a line drawn by the Crown in England all they way across the ocean to settle territorial disputes between the colonies, that's it.
If the line means anything, then is West Virginia Southern? Is Delaware? If the history of what "was Southern" means so much, then I guess it was really telling when Delaware unanimously voted against secession and joining the South, and when Maryland followed suit and voted the idea down too.
Not that that stupid line ever meant anything, but the Midwest was once the West, boundaries shift.
There is no such thing a "culturally southern". You can't put an umbrella of uneducated stereotypes on an an entire region, especially if you don't even believe in geographical origins of said stereotypes. You wind up mooting your own argument, so which is it? Either the "south" had some geographical origins of which you are pinning the stereotype or it did not and "southern" was just made up and use as a insult. You tell me which it is. I'll be waiting.
There is no such thing a "culturally southern". You can't put an umbrella of uneducated stereotypes on an an entire region, especially if you don't even believe in geographical origins of said stereotypes. You wind up mooting your own argument, so which is it? Either the "south" had some geographical origins of which you are pinning the stereotype or it did not and "southern" was just made up and use as a insult. You tell me which it is. I'll be waiting.
there is no such thing as culturally southern??? tell that to wilbur zelinski, and the countless other scholars who have devoted huge amounts of their time to studying the cultural geography of the united states.
culture areas and culture regions are very much real, and the south is very much one of them.
It sounds like for a lot of people, "Southern" is more a state of mind than a geographical location. At least in theory, there could be "Eastern" or "Northern" towns to the south of Washington and "Southern" towns to the north of it.
For what it's worth, I spent a few years in Vermont and heard a woman there refer to her daughters living "down South" in Connecticut and New Jersey.
Well, there is a North/South divide in New England, like urban vs rural, but I'd guess she was just talking geographically. If I was talking about Maine (in Connecticut) I'd say, up north.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
I live in Maryland and have been here for decades. The truth is I don't remember anyone making a big deal out of the Mason-Dixon line. It's simply a border between states. We don't think anything more of it.
I definitely don't think anything of it, I didn't think anyone did til I came to this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk8t
There is no such thing a "culturally southern". You can't put an umbrella of uneducated stereotypes on an an entire region, especially if you don't even believe in geographical origins of said stereotypes. You wind up mooting your own argument, so which is it? Either the "south" had some geographical origins of which you are pinning the stereotype or it did not and "southern" was just made up and use as a insult. You tell me which it is. I'll be waiting.
Ok, first, where did you see me putting an umbrella of uneducated stereotypes over an entire region? I don't believe stuff like that, there's no place with all dumb people or all smart people or all beautiful, ugly, laid back or neurotic people or whatever. Only an idiot believes stuff like that, you're gonna find basically all the same types of people everywhere you go.
Umm, yeah, there is a culture. Every place around the world has it's own general culture. I never said there was one Southern culture. Texas isn't the same as Florida, Florida isn't the same as Atlanta or New Orleans which aren't the same as each other. But yeah, there is a generic historic Southeastern culture people think of when they think about the South (usually the Southeast). The mistake is taking the entire region from Richmond to Houston and calling it one totally set in stone, unbroken culture. Culture can be as general or specific as you want. You could have Central CT culture, CT culture, New England culture, American culture. The scope can widen. We think of French culture here in America, but do you think it's the same from Paris to the Mediterranean? Is Japanese culture the same from Tokyo to Sapporo? We act is if they're some monoliths too, like they talk about one American culture. You can always widen the scope and find more general similarities, and you can magnify certain areas and aspects and make it more specific too.
The problem with your geographical origin argument is that you keep acting as if the Mason Dixon line ever meant something in that respect, and it never did. That's not what it was or is so really, get off that. Does geography have something to do with culture? Yeah, compare cultures that grew up in different areas of the same country, Appalachia vs Western NY, Sub Carpathian Poland vs Central, stuff like that. People who live in a desert won't develop the same exact culture as people who live in the mountains, but in the same nation or region, a more general one that everyone can fit into is there. A region can shape the way people live in it, and geography does help to shape a culture. I don't know why you think the Mason Dixon line has anything to do with any Southern cultures though, cause it never did, and that's my point.
there is no such thing as culturally southern??? tell that to wilbur zelinski, and the countless other scholars who have devoted huge amounts of their time to studying the cultural geography of the united states.
culture areas and culture regions are very much real, and the south is very much one of them.
what a ludicrously uneducated statement.
Yeah, sure. A guy in San Antonio,Texas is the same as one in Miami,Florida. Those "scholars" need to get there heads out of their asses if they think that is right.
Ok, first, where did you see me putting an umbrella of uneducated stereotypes over an entire region? I don't believe stuff like that, there's no place with all dumb people or all smart people or all beautiful, ugly, laid back or neurotic people or whatever. Only an idiot believes stuff like that, you're gonna find basically all the same types of people everywhere you go.
Umm, yeah, there is a culture. Every place around the world has it's own general culture. I never said there was one Southern culture. Texas isn't the same as Florida, Florida isn't the same as Atlanta or New Orleans which aren't the same as each other. But yeah, there is a generic historic Southeastern culture people think of when they think about the South (usually the Southeast). The mistake is taking the entire region from Richmond to Houston and calling it one totally set in stone, unbroken culture. Culture can be as general or specific as you want. You could have Central CT culture, CT culture, New England culture, American culture. The scope can widen. We think of French culture here in America, but do you think it's the same from Paris to the Mediterranean? Is Japanese culture the same from Tokyo to Sapporo? We act is if they're some monoliths too, like they talk about one American culture. You can always widen the scope and find more general similarities, and you can magnify certain areas and aspects and make it more specific too.
The problem with your geographical origin argument is that you keep acting as if the Mason Dixon line ever meant something in that respect, and it never did. That's not what it was or is so really, get off that. Does geography have something to do with culture? Yeah, compare cultures that grew up in different areas of the same country, Appalachia vs Western NY, Sub Carpathian Poland vs Central, stuff like that. People who live in a desert won't develop the same exact culture as people who live in the mountains, but in the same nation or region, a more general one that everyone can fit into is there. A region can shape the way people live in it, and geography does help to shape a culture. I don't know why you think the Mason Dixon line has anything to do with any Southern cultures though, cause it never did, and that's my point.
What is the "generic souther culture" I follow since I am from the south. I want you to tell me how I am .
What is the "generic souther culture" I follow since I am from the south. I want you to tell me how I am .
K, go ahead and ignore pretty much everything else I said, you don't have any answer for any of it? Try to address everything I said instead of picking one lil part to harp on and ignore everything else completely.
How about you answer a few questions? Are MA and CT exactly the same? Are AL and GA? Are MA and CT similar to each other? Are they more similar to each other than MA is to AL? What is it that makes em similar? It's a general culture, something intangible in some ways, but it's something you notice as you're there. Local customs, a way of speaking, words, a type of food special to the area, that's part of what would go into a generic culture. It's there and it grows out into something bigger and bigger as you widen your scope. I can't tell you any of that for you, why don't you tell me; I could tell you all about my neighborhood, then my city, then my area, state, region etc., see what I'm saying?
Think of it this way. The Southern New England States are more similar to each other than the Northern ones are to each other. All the New England States are more similar to each other than to any others. All the New England States are more similar to the Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) than the next Midwestern states over. That Northern group has more in common in itself than with the Southern groups of states that are all more similar to each other than other groups, who all had more specific shared traits down the line. All those states and more together go into the Eastern US region as they're more similar to each other than all the states in the West that are more similar to each other. All that together is American culture which is distinct from Mexican or Canadian general culture. Sorry if that's confusing but that's the best way I could think to explain it right now. If you really don't understand what I'm saying, you're just trying to be difficult or I don't know what to tell you. Do you really think there's no variance in local cultures anywhere? Or that there's no places that can be more similar to each other than others?
Try it another way, are Brooklyn and Manhattan exactly the same in local feeling and culture? No, but when you take it all together do people see a larger NYC culture, yeah. When people take that do they see a shared culture with Philadelphia and other cities and states nearby and up the line? If you really can't see what I'm saying, then I don't know what to say.
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