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Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $mk8795
And the State of Maryland is included on the 11 Confederate States.......
Moderator cut: off topic
The eleven Confederate states:
1. Virginia
2. North Carolina
3. South Carolina
4. Georgia
5. Florida
6. Tennessee
7. Alabama
8. Mississippi
9. Arkansas
10. Louisiana
11. Texas
And an extra star reserved for Kentucky.
For your edification; the Union states (AKA, THE NORTH):
1. Maine
2. New Hampshire
3. Vermont
4. Massachusetts
5. Rhode Island
6. Connecticut
7. New York
8. Pennsylvania
9. New Jersey
10. Delaware 11. Maryland
12. West Virginia (at least the northern third along Ohio)
13. Ohio
14. Indiana
15. Michigan
16. Illinois
17. Wisconsin
18. Minnesota
19. Iowa
20. Missouri
21. Kansas
21. California
22. Oregon
23. Nevada
For your edification; the Union states (AKA, THE NORTH):
12. West Virginia (at least the northern third along Ohio)
I'm pretty sure that if only the 1/3 along Ohio had joined the Union and not the rest WV would look different.
sure it had its rebs, but at the same time the majority of the population wanted to join the United States. We joined the union as a whole on June 19, 1863 from the confederate state of Virginia!
And the State of Maryland is included on the 11 Confederate States.......
Maryland was definately a southern state during the Civil War/War Between the States. Even so far as being held down under martial law and attempting to secede. But today, it is not, DC's spreading influence has made Maryland (and Northern Virginia) part of the BosWash NORTHERN sphere of influence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309
I'm pretty sure that if only the 1/3 along Ohio had joined the Union and not the rest WV would look different.
sure it had its rebs, but at the same time the majority of the population wanted to join the United States. We joined the union as a whole on June 19, 1863 from the confederate state of Virginia!
100%WV---- aka the North
Thing is West Virginia's existence was ram-rodded by the Union army. About half the counties that make up WV had voted FOR secession with most of Virginia, it was the Northern counties straddling Pennsylvania that benefitted from becoming a Union state. I consider roughly half of WV to be in the South.
Maryland was definately a southern state during the Civil War/War Between the States. Even so far as being held down under martial law and attempting to secede.
With all due respect to you, my friend, I wouldn't go quite that far, DK. While there was undoubtably some strong Southern sympathies in Maryland, it is very debatable, even if Lincoln had not declared martial law, whether the populace of the state would have gone for secession or not. I tend to think it would not have. One reason is based on the table below which -- based on service records -- shows the percentage of those in each state which supported Union or Confederate:
**************************
Percent of records indicating Union Service in the Southern/Border states
Alabama - 1.4 Arkansas - 10.1 Florida - 6.2 Georgia - .001 Kentucky - 63% Louisiana - 1.1 Maryland - 89% Mississippi - .005 Missouri - 64% North Carolina - 2.7 Oklahoma (Indian Territory) -- no records available, although a noteable majority of the "Five Civilized Tribes" allied with the Confederacy. South Carolina - .006 Tennessee -- 27% Texas - 2.7 Virginia (includes later day West Virginia) -- 17%
****************************
Now then, let me hasten to add that there can easily be problems with those figures. For one, they are based on the soldier records available in each state archive, and might not be accurate so far as true numbers are concerned. Also, it wouldn't reflect the percentage of men who crossed state lines to join the other side.
In other words, undoubtably many in the border states "crossed the lines" and joined Confederate units in the 11unquestionably CSA states. Still though, when Lee's army went into Maryland, prior to the Battle of Sharpsburg (Antietam), they had hoped Marylanders would welcome them and join up. It didn't happen. For the most part, they were shunned. So, all in all, IMHO, while many Marylanders opposed an invasion of the South initially...it was not to the point that most were pro-Confederate when it came to brass tacks.
CookieScoon had it right on the absolute Confederate States (in order of secession): South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas made up the initial "wave." After the War began, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina and Tennessee joined up.
Missouri and Kentucky were "iffy", as in that Confederate sentiment was strong enough that a "rump government" was formed and they sent reps to the CSA and were "admitted", so to speak (which is why there are 13 stars on the Confederate flags). Maryland never made any such overtures.
Border states, IMHO, which blur the line or have transitional zones for North, South, and/or Midwest:
Virgina:southernmost Northern influence in NoVa, northern most South in Richmond
Kentucky: blend of Southern and Midwest in Cincy suburbs
Maryland:urban areas Northern, suburban areas and Eastern shore Southern
Missouri:southern most midwest, blend Southern culture in the heel
WV:does anybody really know? No one wants to claim it
Florida:southern termination of South, northern point and US portal for Caribbean
With all due respect to you, my friend, I wouldn't go quite that far, DK. While there was undoubtably some strong Southern sympathies in Maryland, it is very debatable, even if Lincoln had not declared martial law, whether the populace of the state would have gone for secession or not. I tend to think it would not have. One reason is based on the table below which -- based on service records -- shows the percentage of those in each state which supported Union or Confederate:
**************************
Percent of records indicating Union Service in the Southern/Border states
Alabama - 1.4 Arkansas - 10.1 Florida - 6.2 Georgia - .001 Kentucky - 63% Louisiana - 1.1 Maryland - 89% Mississippi - .005 Missouri - 64% North Carolina - 2.7 Oklahoma (Indian Territory) -- no records available, although a noteable majority of the "Five Civilized Tribes" allied with the Confederacy. South Carolina - .006 Tennessee -- 27% Texas - 2.7 Virginia (includes later day West Virginia) -- 17%
****************************
Now then, let me hasten to add that there can easily be problems with those figures. For one, they are based on the soldier records available in each state archive, and might not be accurate so far as true numbers are concerned. Also, it wouldn't reflect the percentage of men who crossed state lines to join the other side.
In other words, undoubtably many in the border states "crossed the lines" and joined Confederate units in the 11unquestionably CSA states. Still though, when Lee's army went into Maryland, prior to the Battle of Sharpsburg (Antietam), they had hoped Marylanders would welcome them and join up. It didn't happen. For the most part, they were shunned. So, all in all, IMHO, while many Marylanders opposed an invasion of the South initially...it was not to the point that most were pro-Confederate when it came to brass tacks.
CookieScoon had it right on the absolute Confederate States (in order of secession): South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas made up the initial "wave." After the War began, Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina and Tennessee joined up.
Missouri and Kentucky were "iffy", as in that Confederate sentiment was strong enough that a "rump government" was formed and they sent reps to the CSA and were "admitted", so to speak (which is why there are 13 stars on the Confederate flags). Maryland never made any such overtures.
Excellent post. I also suspect that the Maryland legislature held southern sympathies to a much greater degree than the general population.
I saw a photo that the mason dixon line starts at the east coast of NC and extends over NC, TN, MI, OK, to the top of TX then down the tip. And then i saw a picture that showed the mason dixon line sperates PA and MD. which one is right???
I saw a photo that the mason dixon line starts at the east coast of NC and extends over NC, TN, MI, OK, to the top of TX then down the tip. And then i saw a picture that showed the mason dixon line sperates PA and MD. which one is right???
The census definition puts the Mason-Dixon line at PA and MD border. Most people nowadays would agree that the true cultural dividing line is located somewhere between Northern Virginia and the extreme northern fringes of the Richmond, Virginia MSA.
Border states, IMHO, which blur the line or have transitional zones for North, South, and/or Midwest:
Virgina:southernmost Northern influence in NoVa, northern most South in Richmond
Kentucky: blend of Southern and Midwest in Cincy suburbs
Maryland:urban areas Northern, suburban areas and Eastern shore Southern
Missouri:southern most midwest, blend Southern culture in the heel
WV:does anybody really know? No one wants to claim it
Florida:southern termination of South, northern point and US portal for Caribbean
Nothing is "blended" about the culture in the bootheel. It is the south in every single way except for the state it happens to lie in.
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