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Old 11-26-2010, 07:40 AM
 
56,747 posts, read 81,061,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
I will agree with good 'ol boy that not everything is black and white. "Slavery was bad" is as silly as saying "the Napoleonic Wars were bad". Obviously both were products of the culture and politics of the time.

Slavery as a concept really has nothing to do with whites, blacks, the antebellum South, or really any particular race or region to begin with. The Egyptians of ancient times employed the enslavement of Jews to build some of that civilization's most impressive structures. In ancient Rome, slavery had nothing to do with race. Does that make it more tasteful and politically acceptable?

The demonization of white Southerners really overlooks the fact that many others were involved in the slave trade - the Dutch and Europeans, Northern businessmen, Jewish financiers, and other blacks that sold their own into slavery. It ignores the fact that slavery still exists in parts of Africa and the Middle East. It ignores the fact that many white Southerners were Scotch-Irish, themselves escaping the persecution of purges and famines that plagued their families for generations. It ignores the fact that every race and ethnic group has oppressed others throughout history, and been oppressed themselves.
Actually it still exists in every continent and even in the US in different forms.

Anyway, I think the Northeasternization of the South is limited to certain parts of certain Southern states. So, it's really more of a thing in regards to specific Southern metros and not the states as a whole. I will say that the influence of such people can be felt in some ways like politics and cultural/social aspects.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:21 AM
 
Location: The Home Base-North Carolina
63 posts, read 80,798 times
Reputation: 54
Well, I can tell you that having family within 30min of Raleigh in Franklin County the only impact that Yankees moving to the area has had is that it is more populated meaning more spawl, subdivisions, clearcutting of trees etc. But from what I see among the NATIVE SOUTHERNERS in the area, the outsiders moving the area with their obvious different way of doing things(rude attitudes, cant drive, just to name a few) has been a rallying point for us in the area. I see NATIVE NORTH CAROLIAN stickers on cars everywhere I go up there, as when I was little I didnt see ANY of those stickers on cars. I also have noticed that I see more Rebel Flags on vehicles up in that area now than when I was little. My niece, who is 8, was told by an English teacher(from New York lol) not to say "Yall", that it is bad English. She told the teachers thats how we talk down her lol So my point is that the only change is that their are Yankees moving down but that doesn't change how we have been living. We are still raising our families in the same manner as before. My niece loves hunting and shooting guns lol and my nephews nickname is Bubba. Like I said before, it is the wish of some Northerners to change us but that wont happen. We change on our on
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:06 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,958,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just.a.good.ol.boy View Post
Well said GardenStater. Your EXACTLY right. The reason folks typically only single out whiter Southerners as if they were the be all, end all of slavery I think points out there ignorance and prejudice in regards to the issue. That being said, as a previous poster pointed out, this topic is went off into many different tangents. I mean it is predictable when discusing the South that these issues will inevitably arise, however, I will refrain from posting comments relating to any issue not directly concerning the topic of this thread.
obviously when talking about slavery as a global issue southern whites did not create the institution, nor were they even the last to practice it and should not be singled out.

however, you really seem hellbent on somehow trying to "prove" that anybody could own slaves in SC, somehow attempting to downplay how racially biased the system was. william ellison was one in 400,000. for every black slave owner, the were hundreds of white slave owners in the south (and even more than that, enslaved blacks). people like ellison are very interesting, but they were very rare and not typical of the timeframe at all.

this isnt really off topic, as this is lays the groundwork for the topic at hand. post 1860 is when this era ended, and shortly after when "northeasternization" begun (reconstruction, henry grady's new south, railroads, etc). to understand how the south is today, we need to understand how it was in the past.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: The Home Base-North Carolina
63 posts, read 80,798 times
Reputation: 54
JimmyJohns, using what you just said, we could discuss the impact that pineapples have on the region with people previously not having access to them prior to the United States annexing Hawaii. Do you think pineapples have changed Southern Culture? I certainly dont think Robert E. Lee had access to pineapples. Well you may ask what that has to do with the Northeast. I'd say that at the time the Federal govt was more representative of the North. Everything is connected directly or indirectly. The topic is asking how recent migration from North to South has affected Southern Culture. Well he aint asking, he is saying that is what is happening. It is a sign of a bad debater and someone who has lost the argument when they begin to go off on tangents. Your litigous nature is obvious, but it serves this forum no purpose.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:45 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,958,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just.a.good.ol.boy View Post
JimmyJohns, using what you just said, we could discuss the impact that pineapples have on the region with people previously not having access to them prior to the United States annexing Hawaii. Do you think pineapples have changed Southern Culture? I certainly dont think Robert E. Lee had access to pineapples. Well you may ask what that has to do with the Northeast. I'd say that at the time the Federal govt was more representative of the North. Everything is connected directly or indirectly. The topic is asking how recent migration from North to South has affected Southern Culture. Well he aint asking, he is saying that is what is happening. It is a sign of a bad debater and someone who has lost the argument when they begin to go off on tangents. Your litigous nature is obvious, but it serves this forum no purpose.
actually ive stayed on the topic that YOU brought up and disproved every single thing youve said on it. if this was a competition, then you definitely lost. but we can end this here.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: The Home Base-North Carolina
63 posts, read 80,798 times
Reputation: 54
Whoa. Calm down there JimmyJohns. You are taking this a lil too personal. I am not trying to prove anything. I am simply stating FACTS. I cant help that you disagree with a fact, but regardless, a fact is a fact
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:04 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,958,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just.a.good.ol.boy View Post
Whoa. Calm down there JimmyJohns. You are taking this a lil too personal. I am not trying to prove anything. I am simply stating FACTS. I cant help that you disagree with a fact, but regardless, a fact is a fact
yep, not trying to prove anything. just randomly throwin' facts out there with no specific purpose. alrightey...hey "2+4 is 6", "black people owned slaves" "it will rain on saturday", just random facts, not tryin' to prove anything. no sir.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: The Home Base-North Carolina
63 posts, read 80,798 times
Reputation: 54
JimmyJohns, you seem to be having a hard time dealing with the FACT that Blacks owned slaves in the Antebellum South. I dont know why. It is a fact. It cannot be debated. The MOST PROFITABLE PLANTATION in the ENTIRE STATE of South Carolina was OWNED BY A BLACK MAN!!! I guess in your own lil world you choose to ignore this. But you are not living in reality if you do lol By the way, there is not Northeasternization of the South. That is just ridiculous to say such
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:26 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,958,741 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by just.a.good.ol.boy View Post
JimmyJohns, you seem to be having a hard time dealing with the FACT that Blacks owned slaves in the Antebellum South. I dont know why. It is a fact. It cannot be debated. The MOST PROFITABLE PLANTATION in the ENTIRE STATE of South Carolina was OWNED BY A BLACK MAN!!! I guess in your own lil world you choose to ignore this. But you are not living in reality if you do lol By the way, there is not Northeasternization of the South. That is just ridiculous to say such
good god, this just keeps going around in circles. i dont have a problem with the FACT (although it'd be nice if youd actually cite this fact). i have a problem with you attempting to act as if that was in anyway commonplace at all and you not recognizing the FACT (see i can use caps too) that the vast majority of slaveowners were white and the vast majority of blacks were slaves and the FACT that when trying to paint a picture of antebellum south carolina talking about rare exceptions really isnt too relevant to gauging what race relations and roles were during the time period. you are not throwing out this FACT just randomly, you are using it to prove something, and that something appears to be something along the lines of "south carolina wasnt racially unfair, there was a black guy who owned black people too". tell me, what is so relevant about the FACT? (that has never been cited, and thus, CAN be debated)

Last edited by JimmyJohnWilson; 11-26-2010 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:44 AM
 
Location: The Home Base-North Carolina
63 posts, read 80,798 times
Reputation: 54
JimmyJohns, a link was provided to William Ellison a page or so back. You clearly aint paying attention. You are so trigger happy to bloviate and be litigous at the slightest mention of a Black slave owner. I don't get it. Why, JimmyJohns, do you deny that thousands of Blacks owned slaves? Why do you deny that Anthony Johnson, a black man, was the FIRST KNOWN SLAVEOWNER in America(from the South). You seem insanely and hotheadedly focused on the obvious, that Whites owned slaves. No sh*t sherlock lol The South will never take on the culture of the North.
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