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Old 07-11-2019, 11:28 PM
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:26 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,222 posts, read 23,735,900 times
Reputation: 11669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losfrisco View Post
Cincinnati has a much stronger case than Columbus and is emerging as a leader of that state. In what other state does being the capital mean anything? It only meant something in Ohio because Columbus, not having industry of their own, was surrounded by industrial beasts that underwent massive deindustrialization and population loss.
Yea, I can see a case where if you leaned heavily on corporate presence that Cincinnati goes above Cleveland even St. Louis. It's why I said I can see an arguable case for positions 4/5 for Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus or St. Louis. It's true that Columbus does not have a single definitive industry--its only number three at best in the US for anything and it's a somewhat niche field of fast fashion design. However, it does have a large corporate presence in addition to its large state and federal presence. I understand that the industrial beasts around it have had far more historical impact and Columbus was a very minor player historically. However, manufacturing in the US hasn't been on a great trajectory and in current day, that massive deindustrialization and population loss has some bearing on a ranking of importance today. I did not take the question as asking about considering historical importance instead of the current state of affairs. Doing so would obviously put Columbus back and Columbus a decade ago would have been a pretty rough argument. However, I thought this was about now.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-12-2019 at 12:39 AM..
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:47 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,933 posts, read 6,566,066 times
Reputation: 5402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Agreed. Also, Milwaukee has lost, not recently, some of its MSA, to Chicago. That will continue to happen, I think, until the cities become, pretty much, one big CSA. Milwaukee, though, HUGELY, benefits from being adjoined to Chicago by suburbs.

Obviously, Minneapolis and Detroit are the first two, and as far as the other two....there are no definite 3 and 4. As far as GDP per capita, Milwaukee and Cleveland are the top, after Minneapolis and Detroit. Population doesn't mean a lot, when cities annex to make their numbers bigger.

I think a 3 or 4, would be Cleveland, but that's not in stone, either. Numbers 3 and 4, are any of these cities, depending on the criteria. People may say their favorite city is definitely 3 or 4, but I'd say, if you believe that, you're just a homer.
I think one of the advantages that Milwaukee has is that it is so close to Chicago. There is no real "open space" between the two. Drive I-94 from Chicago to Milwaukee and you will see that.

Chicago and Milwaukee are closer to each other than any other distance between two major midwestern cities. That 90 miles apart is unparalleled in the region, the closest to these, I suspect, would be Ipls-Cin and Det-Cle

The concentration of people on the southwest shores of Lake Michigan dwarfs any possible comparisons. Chicago and Milwaukee, IMHO, compliment each other like no other combinations. The relationship is friendly. Milwaukee takes advantage of having Chicago and what it has to offer near by. Chicagoans are more than comfortable going up to Milwaukee (which we do) and enjoy the city.

Milwaukee's location on Lake Michigan is a plus and of the Great Lakes cities in the US, only Chicago and Milwaukee devote their shoreline for parks, beaches, open public spaces (something far more limited in Cleveland and Buffalo).

The cities have been working on their issues of connectability and working as a regional force. The relatively small triangle that has Chicago, Milwaukee, and Madison at its vertices has much to offer (it is actually a quadrangle but that fourth point, Rockford, with all due respect, is not in league with the other three by any measure).
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,933 posts, read 6,566,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republic of Michigan View Post
Republic, I watched some of the Detroit video. Definitely looks like good things are happening in downtown Detroit. Nice to see that happening. And it is good for all of us in the midwest. Up through the 1950s and maybe a tad beyond, Detroit was definitely one of "America's great cities" and recognized as such. Underneath the decay of the decline of the Big Three and racial divide, that city is still there.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:38 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,482 posts, read 2,233,638 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandBrown View Post
It seems like a lot of people are basing rankings off of MSA population/GDP, though IMO, that's not the best way to look at it. Instead, I sized down (or up in Milwaukee's case) roughly what each would look like if the others in the running had an MSA the same size as Cleveland (about 2,000 square miles). Then, since Cleveland can add both the adjacent Akron and Canton MSAs (which are connected to each other) and still it would be one of the smaller MSAs at that point, I resized what the others would look like then (roughly 3,500 square miles).

Here is population at roughly 2,000 square miles (I used wikipedia and some of the numbers for some of the smaller counties were updated to 2018, but I don't think it would change anything):

1. Detroit - 3,387,853 (1,959 square miles)
2. Minneapolis - 2,878,045 (2,075)
3. Cleveland - 2,057,009 (1,996)
4. St. Louis - 1,944,490 (2,172)
5. Cincinnati - 1,915,412 (2,132)
6. Columbus - 1,827,744 (2,162)
7. Kansas City - 1,799,522 (2,046)
8. Milwaukee - 1,754,784 (1,790)
9. Indianapolis - 1,677,323 (1,822)
Which counties in metro St. Louis did you use? St. Louis City and St. Louis County alone have 1.3 million people in a combined 589 sq miles. Staying on the Missouri side alone you can add in Jefferson County (664 sq miles and 225k) and St. Charles County (593 sq miles and 386k), which gets you to 1.9 million plus in 1,846 sq miles. If I went by population, then remove Jefferson County, MO, add in Madison County, IL and you have approximately 1.95 million in 1,923 sq miles.

St. Clair County, IL would do the same thing as Madison County, IL, but with a few thousand less people and about 40 less sq miles.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,106 posts, read 13,518,144 times
Reputation: 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losfrisco View Post
Yes, its a fraud, and it begets hilarious booster pieces like this:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/201906...-san-francisco

When you have to play this card, you might say you aren't that important and kind of desperate to be noticed.

CLE, STL, MKE, CIN and Indy all have known tangible things that exceed considerably bigger MSA's. To make a case for Columbus you have to get down in the weeds and really look for things. Also, should the 4th most important city in a large region have a hub-capable airport or Amtrak station? Columbus has neither.
From the guy that thinks Bakersfield is California’s premier city.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:02 PM
 
40 posts, read 9,433 times
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Historic legacy... Chicago, Detroit, St Louis, Cleveland, Kansas City, Cincinnati

Economic growth... Minneapolis, Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh... Chicago is at a standstill

Overall Influence... Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St Louis
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
4,273 posts, read 5,498,518 times
Reputation: 4600
Quote:
Originally Posted by coconada View Post
Historic legacy... Chicago, Detroit, St Louis, Cleveland, Kansas City, Cincinnati

Economic growth... Minneapolis, Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh... Chicago is at a standstill

Overall Influence... Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St Louis
Chicago is at a population standstill; its economy actually continues to grow at quite a healthy clip.
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:55 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 1,001,106 times
Reputation: 1645
Twin cities
Detroit
St. Louis
Kansas city
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Old 07-14-2019, 03:57 PM
 
1,536 posts, read 1,503,171 times
Reputation: 1540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandBrown View Post
It seems like a lot of people are basing rankings off of MSA population/GDP, though IMO, that's not the best way to look at it. Instead, I sized down (or up in Milwaukee's case) roughly what each would look like if the others in the running had an MSA the same size as Cleveland (about 2,000 square miles). Then, since Cleveland can add both the adjacent Akron and Canton MSAs (which are connected to each other) and still it would be one of the smaller MSAs at that point, I resized what the others would look like then (roughly 3,500 square miles).

Here is population at roughly 2,000 square miles (I used wikipedia and some of the numbers for some of the smaller counties were updated to 2018, but I don't think it would change anything):

1. Detroit - 3,387,853 (1,959 square miles)
2. Minneapolis - 2,878,045 (2,075)
3. Cleveland - 2,057,009 (1,996)
4. St. Louis - 1,944,490 (2,172)
5. Cincinnati - 1,915,412 (2,132)
6. Columbus - 1,827,744 (2,162)
7. Kansas City - 1,799,522 (2,046)
8. Milwaukee - 1,754,784 (1,790)
9. Indianapolis - 1,677,323 (1,822)
The numbers for Detroit are incorrect. You excluded half a million (500,000) people. The population of Detroit's urban area is 3,887,853 (1959 square miles)
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