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Old 11-23-2010, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
1,372 posts, read 2,794,620 times
Reputation: 839

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
this coming from the same person who holds cleveland in the highest regard possible. fyi, st. louis has a higher gdp, higher metro population, more fortune 500s, and is more "economically viable" than cleveland. you cite columbus as ranking above st. louis because "it's more vibrant and economically viable" yet you still place cleveland above columbus, which is less vibrant and less economically viable than both columbus and st. louis. so your opinion is inconsistent. you are so biased and subjective that you lack credibility.
Your ignorant opinions belong only to yourself. Believe what you want, as I really could care less.

Cleveland and Columbus are both cities that are much better off than St. Louis ... but you'll come back exhibiting "your own blatant bias" concerning St. Louis in an attempt to discredit me.

We have different opinions, it's just that simple!
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:25 PM
 
400 posts, read 869,119 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDBaumgardner View Post
Your ignorant opinions belong only to yourself. Believe what you want, as I really could care less.

Cleveland and Columbus are both cities that are much better off than St. Louis ... but you'll come back exhibiting "your own blatant bias" concerning St. Louis in an attempt to discredit me.

We have different opinions, it's just that simple!
FWIW, I agree with the person who responded to you. He/she is right. The facts are the facts. St. Louis has a larger metro area (much larger in fact), larger gross metropolitan product, more Fortune 500 companies, and is the hub city for a larger geographic area than either Cleveland or Columbus. It's not a matter of opinions.

Metro area population, as of 2009:

St. Louis: 2,828,990
Cleveland: 2,091,286
Columbus: 1,801,848

Link: Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Metro area gross metropolitan product, as of 2009:

St. Louis: $127.8 billion
Cleveland: $101.0 billion
Columbus: $90.0 billion

Link: http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0110/charts.pdf
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,171 posts, read 12,802,899 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
this coming from the same person who holds cleveland in the highest regard possible. fyi, st. louis has a higher gdp, higher metro population, more fortune 500s, and is more "economically viable" than cleveland. you cite columbus as ranking above st. louis because "it's more vibrant and economically viable" yet you still place cleveland above columbus, which is less vibrant and less economically viable than both columbus and st. louis. so your opinion is inconsistent. you are so biased and subjective that you lack credibility.
Yeah. I feel Saint Louis is extremely underrated here on City-Data. It deserves to be what it is, and that is a Top 20 Contending Metropolitan Area/City. And honestly, the place has one of the most stable economies in the Midwest, one of the best public transit in the Midwest (probably the best outside of Chicago), and the success of great sports teams.

I have a lot of respect for Saint Louis, it was the first Midwestern city I ever saw outside of Chicago, and I loved every moment of the place. But its been years since I have been there, I need to see it again sometime soon.

Columbus Vs. Saint Louis: Saint Louis wins

Higher Education:
Washington University at Saint Louis Vs. Ohio State University
Winner: Washington University at Saint Louis (It's a great school)

Population by MSA:
Saint Louis MSA: 2,828,990
Columbus MSA: 1,801,848

There is a difference in 1 Million people between the two of them.

Population by CSA:
Saint Louis CSA: 2,892,874
Columbus CSA: 2,031,229

Economic Output (GDP):
Saint Louis: $127.8 Billion
Columbus: $90 Billion

Fortune 500 Companies in Designated Metropolitan Areas (2010):
New York City: 71
Bay Area: 31
Chicago: 28
Houston: 25
Dallas-Fort Worth: 24
Los Angeles: 24
Minneapolis–St. Paul: 20
Washington DC: 17
Philadelphia: 14
Atlanta: 12
Boston: 12
Detroit: 12
Cincinnati: 9
St. Louis: 9
Charlotte: 8
Denver: 8
Milwaukee: 8
Pittsburgh: 8
Cleveland: 7
Seattle: 7
Richmond: 6
Columbus: 5
Miami–Fort Lauderdale: 5
Omaha: 5
Phoenix: 5
Hartford: 4
San Antonio: 4
Indianapolis: 3
Jacksonville: 3
Kansas City: 3
Louisville: 3
Tampa: 3

In terms of History: Saint Louis possibly has the most history of any Midwestern city.

In terms of Literature: Saint Louis is often one of the top references in Literature, many great writers and poets have represented Saint Louis, like Mark Twain as a very basic example.

In terms of Sports: Saint Louis Cardinals have won 10 World Series, the Rams have won 1 Superbowl.

In terms of economic health: Both Saint Louis & Columbus are below national average and remain to be healthy.

In terms of influence to America: Saint Louis was once one of the Top 10 largest cities in America, and it held that spot for countless decades, Columbus hasn't been anywhere near the Top 10 list yet. Saint Louis was able to rival any city at one point, Baltimore, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, & New Orleans.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
1,372 posts, read 2,794,620 times
Reputation: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeStater View Post
FWIW, I agree with the person who responded to you. He/she is right. The facts are the facts. St. Louis has a larger metro area (much larger in fact), larger gross metropolitan product, more Fortune 500 companies, and is the hub city for a larger geographic area than either Cleveland or Columbus. It's not a matter of opinions.

Metro area population, as of 2009:

St. Louis: 2,828,990
Cleveland: 2,091,286
Columbus: 1,801,848

Link: Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Metro area gross metropolitan product, as of 2009:

St. Louis: $127.8 billion
Cleveland: $101.0 billion
Columbus: $90.0 billion

Link: http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0110/charts.pdf

Maybe you've never heard this before, but SIZE doesn't always mean a city is any better off ... St. Louis is NOT dramatically larger than the Cleveland metro ... and your
GDP for Cleveland isn't accurate ( depends on what source you use ) I've read that Clevelands GDP stands at a respectable $102 BILLION
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,786 posts, read 5,678,147 times
Reputation: 705
Cincinnati has more than 6 fortune 500 companies. I believe it is around 8 or 9.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,786 posts, read 5,678,147 times
Reputation: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY View Post
Yes it does. Only Chicago, Minneapolis-Saint Paul, & Detroit have more in the Midwest.

Fortune 500 Companies in Designated Metropolitan Areas (2010):
New York City: 71
Bay Area: 31
Chicago: 28
Houston: 25
Dallas-Fort Worth: 24
Los Angeles: 24
Minneapolis–St. Paul: 20
Washington DC: 17
Philadelphia: 14
Atlanta: 12
Boston: 12
Detroit: 12
Cincinnati: 9
St. Louis: 9
Charlotte: 8
Denver: 8
Milwaukee: 8
Pittsburgh: 8
Cleveland: 7
Seattle: 7
Richmond: 6
Columbus: 5
Miami–Fort Lauderdale: 5
Omaha: 5
Phoenix: 5
Hartford: 4
San Antonio: 4
Indianapolis: 3
Jacksonville: 3
Kansas City: 3
Louisville: 3
Tampa: 3

I highlighted the Midwestern cities in what I personally consider tiers for them in terms of Fortune 500 Companies. Omaha for it's size is EXTREMELY impressive to say the least. Not even at 1 Million people in the Metropolitan Area yet and already 5 Fortune 500 Companies, and also the most Billionaires Per Capita in the nation.

Personally I gave my Top 4 pick as Minneapolis, Detroit, Saint Louis, & Cincinnati. Detroit & Minneapolis are solid candidates, no question about it. Saint Louis is a solid 3rd candidate (in my opinion), and I personally gave it to Cincinnati for 4th because of all thats going on there, economically it is very much rising, its corporate power, busiest airport in the Midwest outside of Detroit, Chicago, & Minneapolis.
And its the largest Metropolitan Area (now officially) in the state of Ohio.

Anytime!

Minneapolis-Saint Paul along with Seattle (they trade places) are the most literate cities in the country. Minneapolis has made strides for itself, and it most certainly is paying off. It is the healthiest major Metropolitan Area in the Midwest right now and is gaining a good level of population too.

Yeah that is interesting to see, Minneapolis is a very wealthy Metropolitan Area and it has a extremely powerful corporate base as well.

That's by cities though, by Metropolitan Area, it has 3 more than that.
Didn't even see you post this. Ok, Cincinnati has 9. I was about right when I said 8 or 9. Thanks.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:52 PM
 
976 posts, read 1,880,508 times
Reputation: 606
i would just be interested in johndbaumgardner's definition of what "better off" means. i have a feeling he bases that on his own perceptions, which are based on which cities happen to be part of his home state of ohio.

john, is there any evidence to substantiate your claim that "cleveland is much better off than st. louis"? i'm all ears.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:55 PM
 
301 posts, read 561,575 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
i would just be interested in johndbaumgardner's definition of what "better off" means. i have a feeling he bases that on his own perceptions, which are based on which cities happen to be part of his home state of ohio.
Earlier this month he was in the top 10 most important cities thread trying to convince all that Cleveland was a tier 1 with NY. LMAO

I find Cleveland to be an exquisite city but the boosterism is to much
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
1,372 posts, read 2,794,620 times
Reputation: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
i would just be interested in johndbaumgardner's definition of what "better off" means. i have a feeling he bases that on his own perceptions, which are based on which cities happen to be part of his home state of ohio.

john, is there any evidence to substantiate your claim that "cleveland is much better off than st. louis"? i'm all ears.
Ahem, I will now concede that St. Louis, being the truly wonderful city that you proclaim it to be has "TOPPED CLEVELAND" and every other US city ...

Ask for it, I'll deliver ...

St. Louis tops dangerous U.S. cities - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

Yup, your beloved city stands at # ONE, exceeding even the loftiest expectations here in absolutely "horrible Cleveland"

Uh, sleep well tonite ... Nite nite
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:30 PM
 
976 posts, read 1,880,508 times
Reputation: 606
john, you must be in high school or something. first of all, i am not even from st. louis (from philly), so i really have no allegiance to it. secondly, i have never said anything but positive things about cleveland and actually really enjoy your city. don't be a baby. posting those sensational crime rankings does not prove your point-- it's a different city every year and cleveland is always in the top 10 as well. i'd like to know what makes cleveland so much "better off" than st. louis. is there any empirical data that shows cleveland performing better? i'm not arguing, i'm asking a legitimate question because i am truly interested to know whether what you say is true. i really don't have much to base my opinions on other than gdp, corporate presence and population. if you have other data, i'd like to see it. no need to get so easily offended.
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