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Lifeshadower, you should try Houston later.Your opinion about asians there could be interesting, because it's like the west coast or east coast.
Another uninformed opinion.
Honeslty, Houston is huge for Asians in the South, but it is nothing whatsoever like the East or West Coast (unless were talking Boston or San Diego) as far as Asians are concerned.
So your statement is entirely incorrect. I dont want to discount Houston's Asian community because it is significant, but it is not even close the the major population centers on the West Coast or places like NYC and DC.
Honeslty, Houston is huge for Asians in the South, but it is nothing whatsoever like the East or West Coast (unless were talking Boston or San Diego) as far as Asians are concerned.
So your statement is entirely incorrect. I dont want to discount Houston's Asian community because it is significant, but it is not even close the the major population centers on the West Coast or places like NYC and DC.
No no you didn't understand.Houston is far of NY and LA about asians, it's obvious.But it's the biggest asian community outside northeast and california, and Texas is the third state for the asian pop.
Texas is culturally different of CA and NY, so I'm curious about asians there, maybe they're different ?
Honeslty, Houston is huge for Asians in the South, but it is nothing whatsoever like the East or West Coast (unless were talking Boston or San Diego) as far as Asians are concerned.
So your statement is entirely incorrect. I dont want to discount Houston's Asian community because it is significant, but it is not even close the the major population centers on the West Coast or places like NYC and DC.
you are wrong, DC is 5.3% Asian, Houston is 5.2. if that is not even close I need some real strong glasses.
the top 10 are
Honolulu at 49%
SF at 20%
SAC at 13%
SD at 11%
NY at 9%
Seattle at 9%
LV at 8%
DC 5.3%
GH 5.2% that amounts to 315 000 asians. (about the pop of the city of Minneapolis)
EDIT: the great wikipedia estimates the Asian pop in Houston to be 324, 012 between 2005 and 2007 with a margin of error of 1038 people. which would place it in the top 10 for raw numbers just like it is in the top 10 by percentage
The biggest story of them all is that of the Korean Hallyu (the Korean Wave). During the two previous eras, there was a small community of Koreans living in Atlanta centered around the Doraville. Like everyone else, their numbers began to grow due to relocations and births. By the mid-90s, their community numbered around 20,000 or so making it the 10th largest community of Koreans in the United States.
Then, as if some told all their cousins to tell their cousins and their friends to move here, the Korean population in Atlanta exploded. Literally. Until the official count is released in a few weeks, no one will know for sure what the real number is, but the Korean population in Atlanta has either doubled to 40,000 or multiplied to 150,000 making it the second largest Korean community outside of Korea (the largest being Los Angeles) as claimed by Korean community groups in the city. I'm more inclined to believe it's closer to the numbers giving by Korean groups (who else knows their people than your own), but either way one thing is for sure, the nature of Atlanta's asian community has vastly changed in short period of time.
very interesting post (including all of the stuff i cut out to save space). and thanks for your thoughts on the growth and evolution of atlanta's asian population, which doesn't get talked about as much on this site or even among asian-americans outside of the south. it's definitely something to watch over the next few decades.
to address your point about metro atlanta's korean population:
just my opinion, but i am extremely skeptical that atlanta's korean community has reached 150K as claimed by the region's korean community groups, nor do i believe that it's become the nation's second largest korean community after LA.
while anything is possible in the upcoming decades, as of now i can't see any way that atlanta has surpassed or even remotely approached the nyc metro's korean population - especially not in the past 10 years. the 2000 census counted approximately 150K koreans in the nyc area, and that number has surely increased since then, although nowhere near the rate of metro atlanta or DC/NOVA. interestingly, the nyc area's korean community leaders claimed a local population of 250K back when i was a teenager in the 1990s, which was undoubtedly exaggerated. i think they're now claiming 300K+, which is also a joke.
we'll get a better handle on all of the numbers once the 2010 census data come out, but i'd bet that the official nyc-area korean population will be around 180-200K and that the unofficial population (including illegal/undocumented persons) would boost that number by an additional 15-20%.
meanwhile, my guess is that metro atlanta's korean population as of 2010 is much larger than 40K but not even close to 150K - i'm thinking maybe 80-100K (including illegal/undocumented immigrants), which would rank it as the 4th or 5th largest korean community in the nation. pretty sizable for sure, but nowhere near the #2 spot.
LA is obviously the largest korean community in the nation by a very wide margin, but nyc is still a solid #2. the DC area surpassed the chicago area to become the #3 population center for koreans during the 1990s (a distant but rapidly growing #3), while chicago fell to #4 and the bay area was #5. i'll bet that when the 2010 census data are released, the top 3 spots remain the same, with atlanta revealed to be #4 (not too far behind the DC area, and catching up fast), the bay area #5 (not too far behind atlanta, but losing ground), and chicago #6 (their korean population has grown very slowly for years now, but they're still the primary korean population center of the midwest).
you have to realize that ethnic community leaders always overestimate their community's size, mostly for political reasons but also due to ethnic pride/cheerleading. they want to make it seem as if their community has a larger presence (and potential economic and political clout) than they really do. also, it's very difficult to get an accurate count of illegal immigrants at any given time - especially since they tend to be transient - so community leaders will take the highest possible quote they hear from the community, then inflate it by 30% at a bare minimum when interviewed by the mainstream media or speaking with city/state leaders.
Another more real world changes is that of the main avenue through Doraville called Buford Highway. While populated by Latinos for the most part, Koreans own most of the property along the street going into the new center of Korean Atlanta in the city of the Duluth with the Northern end comprising mostly of Korean establishments. This street runs for about 10 miles or so between Duluth and Doraville.
Waronxmas, thanks for the informative post.
I visisted Atlanta a couple yours ago, and remember Buford Hwy. I was surprised by the seeminly growing presence of Asian-Americans in parts of that area, more Korean and Vietnamese presence if i recall. Coming from the West Coast, Buford Hwy was a surprise to me....
However, Atlanta (among most other places of the US) had all these Asian restaurants that served Thai/ Sushi/ Chinese food all under the same roof! Which is virtually non-existent along all of the West Coast (I don't think even Portland has that!)...like the restaurants are unlikely to "lump" all Asian food into one cuisine. That always make me laugh (grimace even).
About NJ Asians..I have never been to New Jersey but from the stats it indicates a relatively high proportion of Asian-Americans..Are the Asians in NJ more likley Korean or Filipino than Chinese/ Japanese?
The place where I felt seemed not very open to Asians was Florida (I have been to South and Central FL)..but then again, Florida in general has a feel of hostility in the air among various groups anyway.
Do others find the Asian-Americans outside the West Coast are more likely to be in lower-working-class occupations/ status (correlated to the ethnic settlement differences as noted by Lifeshadower).
No no you didn't understand.Houston is far of NY and LA about asians, it's obvious.But it's the biggest asian community outside northeast and california, and Texas is the third state for the asian pop.
Texas is culturally different of CA and NY, so I'm curious about asians there, maybe they're different ?
Sorry I came down so hard. I should have worded it differently.
In my personal experiance Asians in Texas are less Americanized than they are in NYC, LA, the Bay or the other larger more established Asian communities. Asians in Texas are more "foreign" for lack of a better way of saying it. Most of that has to the with the fact that the Asian communities are overall younger here than they were back in California. Most Asians here are 1st or 2nd generation, whereas in California or NYC, they have been coming for decades.
I personally think the US has done a better job at addressing this issue than places like Australia or New Zealand (not sure about Canada, because even the Whites there STILL fight amongst themselves over linguistic issues. I do notice that French Canadians LOVE French speaking immigrants, and English speaking Canadians like any immigrant because they know that they will be English speakers one day)
I agree that the US is generally very good in this position. I have relatives who have spent time in Australia and have heard there is hostility against Asians there to the extent that is very very unlikely in America (or the West Coast anyway) (then again, Australia is not the most PC country).
I have spent alot of time in Canada (Vancouver) and it is generally very harmonious among and between ethnic groups, and the tolerance level of Asians is high (towards their Natives though it is different). But I believe even in Vancouver, Asians feel more of the "glass ceiling" than in California, so in that regard, the US is even more advanced in this context.
LA is obviously the largest korean community in the nation by a very wide margin, but nyc is still a solid #2. the DC area surpassed the chicago area to become the #3 population center for koreans during the 1990s (a distant but rapidly growing #3), while chicago fell to #4 and the bay area was #5. i'll bet that when the 2010 census data are released, the top 3 spots remain the same, with atlanta revealed to be #4 (not too far behind the DC area, and catching up fast), the bay area #5 (not too far behind atlanta, but losing ground), and chicago #6 (their korean population has grown very slowly for years now, but they're still the primary korean population center of the midwest).
I have different numbers from the US American Community Survey (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...mat=&-_lang=en) Korean American Total Population: 1,555,293 (1,344,171 alone), of which 64.9% are foreign born
Educational Attainment:
50.8% Bachelor's Degree or Higher
90.8% High School Diploma or Higher
Median Household Income: $54,565
Per Capita Income: $26,278
Regional Dispersion:
21.2% in the Northeast
11.5% in the Midwest
22.0% in the South
44.2% in the West
Top 5 States
1. California: 427,105
2. New York: 129,070
3. New Jersey: 84,871
4. Texas: 61,924
5. Virginia: 60,859
Top 5 CSA's
1. Los Angeles CSA: 303,064
2. New York CSA: 197,528
3. Washington DC CSA: 93,036
4. Bay Area CSA: 76,455
5. Seattle CSA: 54,454 6. Chicago CSA: 53,555
7. Atlanta CSA: 40,464
Sometime in the 2000s, Seattle overtook Chicago as the 5th largest area with the most Koreans. I believe it too, because most of the sushi and teriyaki places there (especially the closer you get to UW) are owned by Koreans.
And outside of Korea, I think there are places in China, Japan, and the former Soviet Union that have more Koreans than most American cities (except MAYBE LA)
Koreans in the Bay Area...well, there are some. There's a Koreatown in Oakland (with MIGHTY tasty food, I might add) but they aren't as concentrated as they are in places like LA and NY. That's why its not as noticeable as in places like Chicago or Atlanta.
Man, all this talk about Koreans..I might get some Korean BBQ for lunch! Thanks for the idea, CD!
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1000
I agree that the US is generally very good in this position. I have relatives who have spent time in Australia and have heard there is hostility against Asians there to the extent that is very very unlikely in America (or the West Coast anyway) (then again, Australia is not the most PC country).
I have spent alot of time in Canada (Vancouver) and it is generally very harmonious among and between ethnic groups, and the tolerance level of Asians is high (towards their Natives though it is different). But I believe even in Vancouver, Asians feel more of the "glass ceiling" than in California, so in that regard, the US is even more advanced in this context.
Well, the difference between Australia and North America is geography. Australians (at least the older generation) feel like they are the "Bastion of Western Civilization" facing "hordes of Asians" who are just a few hundred miles off the coast. For the longest time, Australia had the "White Australia policy" where it restricted immigration to European immigrants. This wasn't changed until the 1970s, so it will take time for that to change. There are some projections now that by 2030, Australia will be 30% Asian (currently, it's at 8-9%) The way that Australians view Asians is probably how many Americans (at least on CD) view Latin Americans.
Canada is a weird case. My friends have told me great things about Vancouver and Toronto, but I don't know how it is in the rest of the country. I get the impression that people there are much more open to having a multicultural society than the United States for reasons I can't explain. In fact, there's more hostility directed between Anglophones and Francophones than there is between native born and immigrant. I think it would surprise many people that a Haitian was once governor general of Canada, or that one of the largest Arab and North African communities in North America is in Montreal.
California is a weird place. In a way, everyone here is "new" here, so there doesn't seem to be any more legitimate claim to be the "original culture" here than anyone else. Sure, California once belonged to Mexico and Spain, but there were also Natives living here (who probably lost out the most) that didn't like the Spanish and Mexicans. Then you have the Anglos coming in ROUGHLY at the same time the Chinese started coming here. Nowadays, it feels like no one belongs here =P
Last edited by Lifeshadower; 12-01-2010 at 12:35 PM..
to address your point about metro atlanta's korean population:
just my opinion, but i am extremely skeptical that atlanta's korean community has reached 150K as claimed by the region's korean community groups, nor do i believe that it's become the nation's second largest korean community after LA.
we'll get a better handle on all of the numbers once the 2010 census data come out, but i'd bet that the official nyc-area korean population will be around 180-200K and that the unofficial population (including illegal/undocumented persons) would boost that number by an additional 15-20%.
LA is obviously the largest korean community in the nation by a very wide margin, but nyc is still a solid #2. the DC area surpassed the chicago area to become the #3 population center for koreans during the 1990s (a distant but rapidly growing #3), while chicago fell to #4 and the bay area was #5. i'll bet that when the 2010 census data are released, the top 3 spots remain the same, with atlanta revealed to be #4 (not too far behind the DC area, and catching up fast), the bay area #5 (not too far behind atlanta, but losing ground), and chicago #6 (their korean population has grown very slowly for years now, but they're still the primary korean population center of the midwest).
I agree. Atlanta's Korean community is nowhere near 150k. It is still very large, but it is not 150k large.
The top 5 largest Korean communities in the US by CSA are:
1. Los Angeles: 303,064
2. New York: 197,528
3. Washington DC: 93,036
4. Bay Area: 76,455
5. Seattle: 54,454
i was born in nyc but primarily grew up across the river in the northeastern nj suburbs, so i'll try to answer this. the thing is, it's very difficult to make a blanket statement about the asian population in the state because it's become so large and diverse and is generally very segregated (i.e. indians live with indians, koreans live with koreans, etc). many of nj's asians live within the nyc sphere of influence (for instance, i grew up 7-10 miles from midtown/downtown manhattan), while a smaller number of them are situated just outside of philly in south jersey.
one thing that generally holds true across the state, though, is that much of nj's asian population resides in suburban areas; this is largely because nj is an overwhelmingly suburban state with a lot of family-friendly communities. when i was a kid in the '80s and '90s, this meant that there was a bit of a divide between nj asians like myself and nyc asians like my friends from the old neighborhood in queens, who generally had much more of an "edge" and thought of us as whitewashed and preppy. back then (and probably even today), a much higher percentage of ny state asians lived in nyc proper (especially queens and brooklyn) while a moderate number lived in the suburbs, especially nassau county on long island.
this meant that nyc-area asians who looked and acted "suburban" - at least in the korean community, but probably in the other groups to some extent as well - were often automatically labeled as being from jersey (and to a lesser extent, long island), whereas the "street smart/urban" ones were assumed to be from nyc proper. as more and more asians have moved out of the city and into the suburbs over the years, this cultural divide has become somewhat less pronounced. still, i think it's reasonable to generally characterize nj's asian population as being very suburban.
there are exceptions, of course. when i was a kid (and even today), jersey city, which is super urban, had large indian and filipino populations. the indian population mainly consisted of stereotypical FOBs and bookworm types, whereas the filipinos tended to present themselves in a very urban manner: wannabe gangsters with baggy pants, pagers, "cool" haircuts, and an edgy/tough demeanor.
but even back then, there were several huge suburban concentrations of indians in the state (most notably edison/iselin in central nj), which contained much more americanized/preppy/rich indians with good style, nice cars, etc - in other words, typical upwardly mobile suburbanites. this suburban indian population has only grown larger in recent years, with indians moving in large numbers to towns all across the state, especially along the iselin-edison-south brunswick-plainsboro-west windsor corridor in central jersey.
meanwhile, filipinos have never had a single enormous suburban enclave in nj on the level of the indians or koreans, but their suburban population did (and still does) outnumber the urban filipino population of jersey city. and like the suburban indians and koreans, these filipinos enjoy the typical suburban lifestyle. the difference is that they're scattered all over the state, with only a couple of suburban enclaves of notable size (e.g. bergenfield).
i'm going to wildly generalize here, but i've noticed that a lot of the suburban jersey filipinos i've met are not particularly ethnocentric and don't necessarily hang out with their own 24/7 the way many of nj's indians and koreans are known to do. another oddity is that unlike the indians and koreans, there aren't any huge ethnic filipino commercial business districts in the state with a large concentration of shops and restaurants. even in jersey city, there really aren't all that many filipino businesses when you consider how large the population is. you'd expect there to be a huge "little manila" somewhere in JC filled with wall-to-wall restaurants, bakeries, and other shops, but instead there are only a few small pockets here and there. it's very strange, and none of my filipino friends from high school could ever explain the lack of a commercial presence to me. imagine my shock when i first visited california and saw the huge filipino commercial shopping/restaurant districts, which simply don't exist on that scale on the east coast.
similar to the filipinos, nj has a pretty large chinese/taiwanese population that is scattered all over the state but isn't concentrated in any single huge suburban enclave (although they do have a couple of moderately-sized ones in central jersey). unlike the filipinos, though, they don't have a large urban enclave, yet they still have a few suburban commercial business districts of moderate size. it's funny, because it's easy to overlook how many chinese live in the state unless you were to look at the census numbers or visit rutgers' main campus in new brunswick.
the other asian groups (mainly southeast asians like thais, vietnamese, cambodians, laotians, burmese) are not well-represented in the state at all, and don't have any sizable communities of note. this is largely a function of nyc not being a magnet for these groups - because much of nj lies within nyc's sphere of influence, it's no surprise that the state has very small numbers of these ethnic groups as well. south jersey outside of philly has a moderate number of vietnamese due to philly's moderate-sized viet population, but other than that, it largely lacks most of these ethnic groups, too.
as for japanese, they're really not well-represented in the state, either. the great majority of them live just across the river from nyc in bergen county, which is incidentally where the bulk of nj's large korean community lives. most of the japanese in nj are foreign businessmen and their families who are on an overseas work assignment and are only living in the area temporarily.
i'd say that of all of nj's asian groups, the indian and korean communities have generally retained the strongest ties to their ethnic identities. this is largely a result of having the largest ethnic asian residential and commercial enclaves in the state - indians in middlesex county/central jersey and jersey city/northeast jersey and koreans in bergen county/northeast jersey.
Last edited by pbergen; 12-01-2010 at 01:13 PM..
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