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Old 12-28-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,724,856 times
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I wish Americans were more keen on judging people's behavior than the flags they fly. If a decent person likes the Confederate flag then they are a decent person with a flag. I have encountered plenty of racists in situations where a Confederate flag was nowhere to be seen. Meanwhile, some people who like the flag seem to get along with their neighbors just fine.

Scum seems to rise to the surface and they are easy enough to pick out, we don't have to pick on people who appreciate a certain configuration of stars and bars on a rectangle of cloth.

If you keep your eyes locked on the Confederate flag flyers, you are letting the insidious 'stealth' racists rule the roost.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,732,092 times
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The rebel flag to me is a representation of the old American fighting spirit. That rebellious nature that freed us from the English.

The south displayed that spirit in the civil war. I hate to say it, but the Union had become a mirror of the British regulars.

I grew up in New York state, in the hills. It was rural and some folks flew the rebel flag. My own brother had the flag in displayed in his living room. To me, it doesn't represent the south so much as it represents that lost American spirit we once all shared.

I have nothing against it. And I'm a born and bred "Yankee". It saddens me greatly that the civil war continues to divide so many Americans.

Me personally? I'd fly it. Right next to the American flag. Because I believe they belong together. The American flag represents the nation. The rebel flag represents it's spirit.

More power to the south. More power to the north. More power to the united states of America.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:37 PM
 
224 posts, read 590,924 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Since I am in an upper midwest state( Michigan) and I fly the third national confederate flag I will explain my reasons for displaying it. As a previous poster stated, the civil war was really about state vs federal power, amoung other things including slavery. When it comes to the constitution the south was right and the north wrong. Sucession is legal, states rights is supreme. I am a conservative who supports states rights and smaller federal goverment. Our founding fathers never intended the federal goverment to be as big as it is, or to wield the kind of power over the states that it does. The confederate patriots knew this and they fought for the values of our founding fathers. If we followed our constitution and allowed states to govern themselves as they see fit we would have a more harmonious union today. Any state that wishes to have socialized medicne, state funded abortions and gay marriage would be allowed to without interference from outsiders (feds, other states). Any state would also be free to outlaw gay marriage, abortions and decrease the amount of goverment involvement in peoples lives. This is the beauty of states rights, liberal sections of the nation could be liberal, while the conservative parts are allowed to be conservative without being badged by each other via federal power. Those who find themselves at odds with their local state culture could simply move somewhere else where they more fit. Instead we have tossed out the values of our founding fathers and have embraced federal tyranny. Now the side with the most political might dominates the other. Our current system stokes political animosity, and with building hate we risk moving closer to a second civil war sometime in our future. I fly the 3rd national confederat flag as a political statement, and because of my interest in the civil war. The reason I fly it has nothing to do with race, and Im not the only one in Michigan who flys it. Its not hard to find confederate flags displayed in the rural areas of Michigan. Of course many of us are the grandchildren of southerners here in this state, so that may play a part in it as well. The confederate flag is not about racism, but about southern heritage, and American defiance against federal tyranny.
Don't you think this would split the country up??? Making america two countries within one?
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:56 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,110,365 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert kid View Post
Who are you to dictate what is "acceptable" to southerners these days? TexasReb lives back there and he feels that there is an understanding about it.

I'm pretty sure you are blowing smoke.
Thanks DK... and let me back it all up just a bit...

There may have been more recent opinion polls on the matter, but according to the latest Gallup I can find, a decided majority of the American public does NOT think of the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol of "racism"...contrary to the mantra those who get hysterical about it continue to repeat. Here is a link and an excerpt:

Americans Divided on Southern States Flying Confederate Flag

Apart from their feelings about flying the Confederate flag, only 28% of Americans say that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, while 59% of Americans say the flag is more a symbol of Southern pride. This represents a slight decrease in the "Southern pride" position since 1992, when 69% said that this was what the flag represented, as opposed to racism. This pattern is the same for those who have followed the issue closely as it is for Americans overall. Although Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to say the flag is a symbol of Southern pride (by 74% to 16%), even Democrats express this view by a plurality of 48% to 40%.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Portland, Maine
4,180 posts, read 13,048,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Thanks DK... and let me back it all up just a bit...

There may have been more recent opinion polls on the matter, but according to the latest Gallup I can find, a decided majority of the American public does NOT think of the Confederate Battle Flag as a symbol of "racism"...contrary to the mantra those who get hysterical about it continue to repeat. Here is a link and an excerpt:

Americans Divided on Southern States Flying Confederate Flag

Apart from their feelings about flying the Confederate flag, only 28% of Americans say that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, while 59% of Americans say the flag is more a symbol of Southern pride. This represents a slight decrease in the "Southern pride" position since 1992, when 69% said that this was what the flag represented, as opposed to racism. This pattern is the same for those who have followed the issue closely as it is for Americans overall. Although Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to say the flag is a symbol of Southern pride (by 74% to 16%), even Democrats express this view by a plurality of 48% to 40%.

Learn to read other's posts and not READ-INTO other's posts.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:41 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,110,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj View Post
Learn to read other's posts and not READ-INTO other's posts.
Lemme guess...

You are either a college professor who is not used to being challenged...or an undergrad who thinks they know everything concerning other people's motivations...

But..*shrug*...I could be wrong, I suppose. After all, I was the one who married my first wife...

But seriously, regardless, don't presume to lecture me about what I should or shouldn't do so far as interpreting posts. I dare say I have been on C-D a lot longer than you, and understand very well the manners and approach. Just because you have had your head handed back to you countless times on this thread is no reason to get all bent out of shape.

Although, I must admit, I hope to give you a few additional things to get bent out of shape over.

As it was? I was talking to my friend, DesertKid. That was prompted by his inquiry into your own earlier assertion that most Southerners found the Confederate Battle Flag "unacceptable." In support? I provided a link to the lastest Gallup Poll (that I know of) showing that most Americans (not just Southerners) do not percieve it as a symbol of "racism" but, rather, "Southern pride." If you have something to dispute/counter that particular poll, then please present it.

So pray tell me, in all your wisdom and insight, what I mis-read/read-into...as to this particular aspect of the subject at hand?

Last edited by TexasReb; 12-28-2010 at 07:38 PM..
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Portland, Maine
4,180 posts, read 13,048,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Lemme guess...

You are either a college professor who is not used to being challenged...or an undergrad who thinks they know everything concerning other people's motivations...

But..*shrug*...I could be wrong, I suppose. After all, I was the one who married my first wife...

But seriously, regardless, don't presume to lecture me about what I should or shouldn't do so far as interpreting posts. I dare say I have been on C-D a lot longer than you, and understand very well the manners and approach. Just because you have had your head handed back to you countless times on this thread is no reason to get all bent out of shape.

Although, I must admit, I hope to give you a few additional things to get bent out of shape over.

As it was? I was talking to my friend, DesertKid. That was prompted by his inquiry into your own earlier assertion that most Southerners found the Confederate Battle Flag "unacceptable." In support? I provided a link to the lastest Gallup Poll (that I know of) showing that most Americans (not just Southerners) do not percieve it as a symbol of "racism" but, rather, "Southern pride." If you have something to dispute/counter that particular poll, then please present it.

So pray tell me, in all your wisdom and insight, what I mis-read/read-into...as to this particular aspect of the subject at hand?
You sure assume a lot. I agree with your first wife. By the way, in my debate with the arizona kid, I never said your rag was a symbol of racism.
Perhaps it best you go back and read to confirm that.

Your gallop poll reference also does not do this debate justice because it is an either/or poll: either racist or not. That my dear sir was not the debate we were having.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:43 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,110,365 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonjj View Post
You sure assume a lot. I agree with your first wife.
If I still had her address/phone number, I would be happy to give it to you so y'all could get in touch.

Quote:
By the way, in my debate with the arizona kid, I never said your rag was a symbol of racism.
Perhaps it best you go back and read to confirm that.
No, perhaps it best YOU go back and read it. You seem quite the odd dancing duck...who can also spin around well. Since you are such a stickler for details? Whoever said you called it a symbol of racism? Listen carefully:

Here is what you wrote:

Quote:
By the way, the rag you are defending isn't "acceptable" to most southerners either.
With me so far?

Now then, what I furnished was the latest (so far as I know) national opinion poll on how Americans viewed the Confederate (Battle) Flag. To wit, clearly, most see it as a symbol of Southern pride rather than racism.

Since the basic controversy involving the Flag revolves around a racial aspect, then please elaborate on how your use of the phrase "isn't acceptable to most southerners either" apart from the said racial issue?

To be fair though, I can see where such a divergence might be your position and be valid.

Back to the main point though, what can you provide backing-up such an assertion...regardless of motivation? Do you speak for Southerners...or any American on the topic? Bottom line is, please support your contention concerning the "unacceptability" factor you brought up.

Quote:
Your gallop poll reference also does not do this debate justice because it is an either/or poll: either racist or not. That my dear sir was not the debate we were having.
Sorry...but you are not going to steer this into the ditch, nor define the terms of the debate/discussion that has been taking place long before you got into this thread. Good try, but no dice. In any discussion/debate of this sort and on such a volitile topic, things take tangents and roads and paths and such. However? Since you brought it up? What exactly WAS the point you were trying to make when you made the concrete statement about most Southerners finding it unacceptable?

Further, what is your --and ok, I accept you may not find it "racist" -- personal objection to the display of the Confederate Battle Flag? Or do you have one? Maybe indeed I missed something...

Just to finish up...what I have gleaned from most of your posts, is an essentially Marxist vision of history. With that said though, I will publicly apologize if you say that analysis of mine does not reflect your basic ideology and viewpoint.

Last edited by TexasReb; 12-29-2010 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:13 PM
 
705 posts, read 1,009,319 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamscott View Post
I know an awful lot of hatemongers that love the confederate flag and the KKK and other hate groups take pics of it all the time. People will have to try harder to convince me possibly because I've lived all of my life in "redneckville" the areas I'm from are at least 75% racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. When there's just as big of a vocal group that's not prejudiced I'll agree until then I will call it "hate rag."

Where are you from where you see this all the time? I have a feeling it won't even be the south.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:48 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,724,856 times
Reputation: 30796
A lot of hatemongers and the KKK seem to prefer Ford over Chevrolet. If someone moves onto my block with a Ford I will be sure to put up posters so they can be properly shunned.
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