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Old 12-21-2010, 01:47 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,136,223 times
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I have used up so much key-board ink on this subject, that it is probably the reason I have had to replace so many keyboards over the years!

Anyway, I just want to say this (and no doubt my screen-name telegraphs were I stand):

Most (or at least many) non-Southerners who display the Confederate Battle Flag (and, as an aside, a goodly percentage of people, even in the South) indeed do so in a belligerent and obnoxious way. And racially motivated manner.

I dare say that most of them don't have the slightest inkling of its history (the rectangular flag most often thought of today as the "Confederate Flag" was never an official flag and even rare it its use back then). And further, most couldnt even tell you which half-century the War was fought.

Anyway, I don't guess I can expect non-Southerners to understand just how complicated is the intrinsic relationship between the Confederate flag (whichever one it is...and there are many), with our history and heritage. I have seen time after time, many northerners, just automatically assume (ludicrously), that those of us who proudly display it, are doing so out of some sense of racial animosity, or wanting to start the war over again.

No, it really IS, for most of us, an icon of our pride in our history and heritage and of our ancectors fighting spirits. Slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, has not a damn thing to do with it. I really do think that, on many levels, it really IS a Southern thing, and that much of the rest of the country do not and perhaps, never will, understand.

Even between black and white Southerners there is a certain level of understanding about it. In a way that doesn't exist elsewhere....

I know I get a bit long-winded sometime...but the summation is that, my position is that I refuse to let a proud symbol of my ancestors and region become the property of hate groups and idiots. The best way I know to let that happen is to surrender it to them by default.

The skin and cone heads stole the flag of our ancestors. And of our grand-fathers who tucked it under their uniforms and...all the time planting the Stars and Stripes on Utah Beach and Tarawa, kicking Nazi philosophy into scattered pieces. We Southerners of the true South , we want it back.

Just a little good reading, I think...

Ann Coulter

SUVCW Battle Flag Resolution
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,950,407 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Now for something more serious than the previous.

I defended flying the Confederate flag once, but the thing is slavery was a big part of why they seceded and I think they were fairly tough on anyone who wanted to secede from the Confederacy. Plus in the 1960s the Southern Governors started flying the Battle Flag to protest racial integration. So for many blacks, including most Black Conservatives when I've seen their conventions on C-SPAN, its hurtful associations aren't easily forgotten.

Couldn't you or others just fly the "Don't Tread on Me" flag, with the snake, or a flag of some other States-Right rebellion.
i guarantee if the south did win the civil war, there wouldn't be slavery right now in 2010. even the most traditional southerners i know are against slavery, they're just live and let live type people. and honestly some of the most interracial towns in the country in the south. in the north blacks are confined mainly to a city neighborhood or two whereas in the south they're all over small rural towns. and in more honesty, some of the most racist people i've met are from the north. they talk about being all accepting yet if black people moved into their whitebred perfect little culdesac they'd have a heart attack.

it's the northerners who misinterpret what the south stood for, back then slavery was one of the big issues but it's the principle that shows that the north is in the wrong infringing on states rights whether they liked what the south was doing or not. slavery would've died out, every place on the planet had its little screwed up things going on it at one time or another. didn't they chop heads off in england a few centuries years ago?

it's funny how you say "states rights rebellion." it shouldn't even be at the point to be considered a rebellion.
and you want to see a black man flying a confederate flag? here:
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/bl...federates.html

Last edited by CelticGermanicPride; 12-21-2010 at 02:20 PM..
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,582,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post

and you want to see a black man flying a confederate flag? here:
Hoffman: Black Confederates
Those black men only fought for the Confederacy because they were forced to (they were SLAVES, remember?)
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,847 posts, read 11,037,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
The Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Address is a major red flag. That's a very thinly veiled racist website.
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Old 12-21-2010, 03:14 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,136,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Those black men only fought for the Confederacy because they were forced to (they were SLAVES, remember?)
Goodgawdamighty.

How do you "force" somebody to fight (operative term, here) for something they don't have at least some reason for doing so with bravery and guts and service??? That is ludicrous. No offence (but if the shoe fits, wear it, KP) you don't seem to know jack about it.

I am not one of those who is going to exaggerate the number of blacks who fought for the South. My own research indicates it is probably much less than some want to believe...but many more than others want to think, either.

The truth is probably -- as the old saying goes -- in between.

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/count...is/blackcs.htm

There were many free blacks in the South (slave owners too), and many volunteered their services to defend what THEY too, felt was their homeland. The Southland.

At the same time, yes, true, many were slaves and servants who had not much choice. BUT? That didn't always translate -- in the vast majority of cases, didn't -- into that they didn't want to be where they were. The black Confederate is truly a censored subject in many ways. And also, unlike in the Union army, blacks in Confederate service (free or slave) were given the same pay rate.

After the War, those blacks -- free and slave -- who served in the army often joined the United Confederate Veterans (UCV). They recieved pensions and were listed (as in the case of Tennessee state records) "colored soldiers." As an addendum, at the 50th Anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg? There were no provisions/tent housing made for the "colored" Confederate soldiers. Their white CSA compatriots made it very clear that either the blacks were to be treated in a respectful way...or they would not attend, either.

Bottom line is, Kazoo, you don't really know what the hell you are talking about. A word to the wise...

Last edited by TexasReb; 12-21-2010 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 12-21-2010, 03:27 PM
 
102 posts, read 158,064 times
Reputation: 84
Oh, look, another "white people are bad" thread... Getting old, people.
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:24 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,986,691 times
Reputation: 597
Quote:
Why does the South need a symbol? Does the Upper Midwest have a flag? What about the Northeast? The West doesn't have a symbol. Like it or not, the South is just another region of this nation. You guys aren't special or different.
Just shut up.
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:56 PM
 
288 posts, read 300,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
I have never seen a confederate flag in Minnesota, which is a good thing as it is a symbol of ignorance, slavery and opression.
Shouldn't the US flag be a symbol of a genocide then? Millions of people were killed as a result of US military interventions in different parts of the world

Last edited by QweffL; 12-21-2010 at 07:22 PM..
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:03 PM
 
288 posts, read 300,120 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
I've never seen one in the Cities. I don't know how someone could openly fly that flag on the east side of St. Paul, considering the area's high Black and Asian population.
And Asians should be offended by rebel flag exactly why?
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,342,148 times
Reputation: 1915
While I support an individuals right to wield the flag, I also reserve the right to think whatever I want about that person.

The St. Andrews cross was originally a flag used to represent the ideals of States Rights, and individual rights, and was flown by the southern states during the Civil War. However, my native state of Georgia chose to adopt the flag as the predominant image of our state flag in 1956, at the hieght of the civil rights movement, in defiance to the federal government's imposing of equal rights legislation on the states. This troubles me.

We have since returned to the original confederate flag image as our state flag(the Stars and Bars), which I see as a much more relevant historical symbol,(the first Stars and Bars flag was made in Palmetto, Georgia, and flown in Fairburn, Georgia), as well as being far less controversial to a population that makes up 28% of my states racial composition, and a more beautiful flag.

Fact is, the meaning of any symbol can change over time in accordance with the people or organizations that use it. It has become in the last 60 years or so, a symbol of racism and bigotry. Feel free to fly the flag, but know that I will consider you something of an *******.
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