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Old 12-30-2010, 06:24 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,869,402 times
Reputation: 2120

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Quote:
Originally Posted by airwave09 View Post
Oh the irony of someone who claims to be anti-liberal and gung-ho conservative talking up communist China as being a rising world power and doing things right when it comes to business, power, and influence!

This pretty much discredits everything you said up to this point, then again I have yet to meet one republican that didn't have at least one hypocritical view on a political issue. So consider me un-surprised.
News flash - in some minds hypocrisy is not a sin, it's a natural byproduct of doing business.
In Holland MI a new LG battery plant is being built over the objections of Republicans because of a DOE grant of $151 million. At the dedication with Obama, they all showed up to schmooze and have their pictures taken.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,948,692 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by airwave09 View Post
Compare the miles of roads and amount of public infrastructure in northern states with that of comparable southern states, there is a huge difference, and maintaining that difference costs a lot of money.
northern roads suck and it's not just because of the weather. i've driven and california; roads there suck too. those states are losing money and the crappy south is going to gain from your loss. as for public infrastracture, that can be paid for through business revenue. the richer a places economy gets, even if it has lower taxes, the more money it can make through taxes. if taxes are 20% yet that place has huge companies and lots of manufacturing, that 20% turns into a ton of money. if a places taxes are 50% and business is running to the place with 20% taxes, i think we know who's going to be doing all the new building. the south is a new player in the game, to sit here and brag about how much you guys have over it right now is ludicrous.

Quote:
Just so you know, the reason that nothing is getting done on the illegal immigration front is that both sides stand to benefit from illegals. The Democrats get the hispanic vote by taking the stand that they will not challenge it. And the republicans pretend to want to stop it to get the support of their base, but behind the scenes they actually benefit from the cheap, insurance-free, tax-free labor that they get to use in their corporations. So in reality, they won't do anything about it either.. trust me.
there are many republicans who don't support illegal immigration. i can't speak for all of them but every republican i know hates illegals. i hate the fact that they come running over here illegally and put american contractors out of work. sure they can benefit a business owner because they're cheap, but they don't pay the taxes you love, they don't circulate money into the economy, and they bring desirable neighborhoods down. that's exactly what they did to my old neighborhood.

Quote:
Umm Pittsburgh is far from "dead" buddy. Come to the southside, U of Pitt, Downtown and the north shore and see all of the reinvestment and growth that is taking place in those neighborhoods before you say something that unfounded and reliculous.
i can find a popular area in any city. i could go to detroit and find a place called greektown for nightlife and whatnot. does that mean the city doesn't suck, just because there may be a few idiotic amateur investors in a couple neighborhoods hoping to death that the place takes off? uh, no. pittsburgh cleaned up its image but that doesn't make it some kind of booming job filled paradise.

Quote:
Oh the irony of someone who claims to be anti-liberal and gung-ho conservative talking up communist China as being a rising world power and doing things right when it comes to business, power, and influence!
china economically is capitalist. you like that word? capitalist. i'd say the roads and public transportation look pretty good, but you can see for yourself what business friendly environments create;





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Old 12-30-2010, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,948,692 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
News flash - in some minds hypocrisy is not a sin, it's a natural byproduct of doing business.
In Holland MI a new LG battery plant is being built over the objections of Republicans because of a DOE grant of $151 million. At the dedication with Obama, they all showed up to schmooze and have their pictures taken.
you know we could pick at things like that all day between both parties. i'd say something like that is pretty miniscule compared to the fact that obama vacations more in a year than i did my entire life. not to mention the fact that you and i don't know if they went there for other reasons. i'm not going to point fingers over something like "taking pictures." obviously, they don't support it which one of them makes clear in this article.
At Battery Plant, Obama Pushes Job Creation - CBS News

now if they were trying to take credit for it, then i wouldn't support them.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:34 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,256 posts, read 11,966,706 times
Reputation: 3093
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenaudFR View Post
Alaska is a proof the poverty rates aren't linked to the tax rates
California is high-taxed and the quality of school is horrible..So the quality of education isn't linked to the tax rate
The overall tax rate in South Korea is low, like in the US, but their schools are among the best of the world !

And all high-tax states are dominated by strong public unions, because a big part of the taxpayers' money is for them (very generous pensions, free healthcare, good salaries).A big part of the taxpayers money isn't invested in the quality of schools or the infrastructures.
Alaska has high paying jobs because of the environmental conditions and NEED for people to move there. IDK how far you can make a case for Alaska. What's you're argument against the best educated states in the nation? NH/VT/NJ/.CT/MA- CA has a shabby education systems (true)- But either way, where are your low taxed states at?
Lol at pulling South Korea to actually try to make a valid point for education and low taxes. The education system in South Koreas's school is corrupt as far as I'm concerned.

Ontario-Quebec are highly taxed, and have some of the best education systems. They also have lower crime rates than the vast majority of American states. They're generally more tolerant as well.

Again, NYC is in the state with the highest taxes. What city is more important in America?
~

All of Europe basically has high taxes. What do you think the US will do over time? NY/NJ/CT etc all have high taxes because they've been developing themselves up way before GA or TX. GA/TC wont have such low taxes in 10-15 years- FL's taxes spiked like you wouldn't believe, it was a shock (hence the massive foreclosure crisis).. If your boasting low taxes, you shouldn't be encouraging massive influential growth.

Innovative states have higher taxes, plain and simple. I know it's great to have low taxes, and I think TX is doing a mighty fine job- But look at the size of that state! The more space, the lower the taxes. (Hence NJ's density situation making it one of the most tax burdened states)
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,678,624 times
Reputation: 4368
Ouch... the first few pages of this thread really made my head hurt!

The first problem with all this is the assumption people are moving soley, because of differences in taxes!

The places with higher taxes also have the biggest and older population centers. When a city or area gets so big the cost of living there, doing business there, and the government providing services eventually goes up per capita from congestion.

So businesses and people look for less populated areas to move to where it isn't as expensive to build, operate, and live in.

I'm from Atlanta. It is often cheaper to live/operate here, but if we had as many people NYC had we wouldn't be as cheap.

And yes businesses will strategically decide where to locate based on cost of running a business in a location, cost of taxes in a location, proximity to logistics (resources and human transport), proximity to intellectual capital, etc...

There is a reason why large cities in high tax areas (NYC) continue to have huge GMP's and huge populations, but this is always why there is more growth in less populated areas that aren't as congested, but provide access to some forms of intellectual capital or logistical resources.

Why does that have to turn into some big pro-tax or anti-tax argument with some people?

You want access (personal or business) to high education, high transportation, heavily resourced, and heavily populated areas you pay more to access it. If you don't need all that you locate somewhere else that is cheaper, but can provide what you do need.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Tower of Heaven
4,023 posts, read 6,438,974 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by bburl100 View Post
Nope, I didn't hear you or the video - there's no cc and I cannot hear. I sold our house last year in Rockland Co. NY (30 mins. north of NYC) and moved to NC. It was either that or probably lose our house to foreclosure. We weren't close to being there but I didn't have a job (laid of 2/12/09) and St. Lawrence of Ramapo was helping to kill us with taxes on stupid things - grandfather clocks costing a couple hundred grand for each village in Ramapo that chimed his name (seriously), building a AAA baseball stadium even though people voted against it, helping one particular group of people acquire a lot of land for religious purposes, etc. I was told by a trustee our village tax was going up as well. We got out in the nick of time. Here, there aren't any jobs and I can't afford unhealthy insurance here but I won't lose my house because I don't have one!

I hated NY for many reasons - we were flooded by H1B and sponsorships from overseas so we couldn't compete with them. We paid tolls everywhere. Guiliani was an idiot. The legislature was noted as being made of of the biggest idiot legislatures in the U.S. I loathed Wall Street and what it represented - and interviewed there and learned more about the unscrupulous behavior of the banks ... at the interview! The list is endless. I'm glad I leftl

About six years ago, I removed a bumper sticker from my car that said, "Take back the house democrats," when I no longer could tell the difference between a democrat or republican. They're both of one hedonistic ilk, so it's meaningless who represents which district. They're all bada*** - including the once pristine Kucinich.
Great and non-partisan post

To be honest people I don't hate these states.I'd love to work in New York City after my studies (I want to work as Export Sales Manager) if I find a job there.For a rural french guy like me it's certainly a great experience to work in this extraordinary city, just some years because unfortunately the housing is too expensive and taxes too high, compared to Houston or Miami (I don't really care about the cold weather of NYC, it's the same here in this part of France lol)
But to create my own business after, I couldn't go to California,NY or NJ.These states have their qualities and good amenities I can't deny that, but their economic policies are too anti-business, really.
------------------------------------------


The best states for business in 2010 :
  • 1. Texas (http://www.cnbc.com/id/37875470 - broken link)
  • 2. Virginia (http://www.cnbc.com/id/37875509 - broken link)
  • 3. Colorado (http://www.cnbc.com/id/37516580 - broken link)
  • 4. North Carolina (http://www.cnbc.com/id/37874438 - broken link)
  • 5. Massachusetts (http://www.cnbc.com/id/37516963 - broken link)

News Headlines

You can't hate the business world, they create jobs where they can gain more dollars, mostly in pro-business states (Massachussets is the exception, but their workforce is so educated, no doubt a great place for high-end products).
------------
Look at the Fortune 500 companies in 2010 : 57 are in Texas, the largest of the US with California ! In 2000 Texas was behind California and New York, now Texas is first ! It's just obvious, the economic achievements of Texas are incredible ! No wonder Texas is become recession-proof and so good economy !
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:55 AM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,869,402 times
Reputation: 2120
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
you know we could pick at things like that all day between both parties.
Yeah we could, but it would be wrong!
Quote:
i'd say something like that is pretty miniscule compared to the fact that obama vacations more in a year than i did my entire life.
Okay, more than YOU perhaps, but more than your Republicans??
Quote:
not to mention the fact that you and i don't know if they went there for other reasons.
Are you suggesting that Democrats vacation for pleasure while Republicans' vacations are secretly for the nation's business?
Quote:
i'm not going to point fingers over something like "taking pictures."
"Taking pictures"? My point was it was a PHOTO-OP for people who were previously against the project now wanting to be seen as FOR the project! It's called hypocrisy, which some see as a sin! This is standard Republican procedure, opposing a govt. grant of some kind, but then proudly handing out the checks.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,948,692 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201 View Post
Alaska has high paying jobs because of the environmental conditions and NEED for people to move there. IDK how far you can make a case for Alaska. What's you're argument against the best educated states in the nation? NH/VT/NJ/.CT/MA- CA has a shabby education systems (true)- But either way, where are your low taxed states at?
Lol at pulling South Korea to actually try to make a valid point for education and low taxes. The education system in South Koreas's school is corrupt as far as I'm concerned.

Ontario-Quebec are highly taxed, and have some of the best education systems. They also have lower crime rates than the vast majority of American states. They're generally more tolerant as well.

Again, NYC is in the state with the highest taxes. What city is more important in America?
~

All of Europe basically has high taxes. What do you think the US will do over time? NY/NJ/CT etc all have high taxes because they've been developing themselves up way before GA or TX. GA/TC wont have such low taxes in 10-15 years- FL's taxes spiked like you wouldn't believe, it was a shock (hence the massive foreclosure crisis).. If your boasting low taxes, you shouldn't be encouraging massive influential growth.

Innovative states have higher taxes, plain and simple. I know it's great to have low taxes, and I think TX is doing a mighty fine job- But look at the size of that state! The more space, the lower the taxes. (Hence NJ's density situation making it one of the most tax burdened states)
nyc having high taxes now and being the most important city isn't a product of high taxes, it's a product of capitalism back in the day.

europe sucks. i'm proud of my heritage, but there's only 2 maybe 3 places i'd ever live there and they're not your usual "utopia" suspects. europe loves to cover up its social problems with benefits, that's all.

whether the south keeps low taxes or not is up to the people. i don't see plano, tx changing anytime soon. florida is a unique state and definitely doesn't represent any other states interests so that's a poor example.

Last edited by CelticGermanicPride; 12-31-2010 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,948,692 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
Okay, more than YOU perhaps, but more than your Republicans??
name a republican whose been on more vacations in 2 years than obama. liberals dogged bush for how much he golfed when he first became president, yet obama's done it multiple times more than bush in 1/4 the time.

Quote:
Are you suggesting that Democrats vacation for pleasure while Republicans' vacations are secretly for the nation's business?
everybody 'vacations' for pleasure. don't ask me a stupid question like that. who vacationed more, bush or obama? you tell me.

[qupte"Taking pictures"? My point was it was a PHOTO-OP for people who were previously against the project now wanting to be seen as FOR the project! It's called hypocrisy, which some see as a sin! This is standard Republican procedure, opposing a govt. grant of some kind, but then proudly handing out the checks.[/quote]

that's not hypocrisy. one of them stated clearly that he's against it, but he still went. it's a photo op, true, but could it have been more? do you think they go only to have a picture taken, or do you think they talk politics too? he said he's against it, clearly, him having a picture taken with the president of the united states is something anybody would take advantage of regardless of their political beliefs.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:37 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,256 posts, read 11,966,706 times
Reputation: 3093
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
nyc having high taxes now and being the most important city isn't a product of high taxes, it's a product of capitalism back in the day.

europe sucks. i'm proud of my heritage, but there's only 2 maybe 3 places i'd ever live there and they're not your usual "utopia" suspects. europe loves to cover up its social problems with benefits, that's all.

whether the south keeps low taxes or not is up to the people. i don't see plano, tx changing anytime soon. florida is a unique state and definitely doesn't represent any other states interests so that's a poor example.
How is Florida a poor example?
It went from 9 million people to 18 million people in 30 years. It went from low taxes, to high taxes.

Same situation will happen with GA/NC/etc their taxes will never stay that low. And if they love that their taxes are so low, they shouldn't be encouraging massive growth (which people tend to boast about)

People don't seem to comprehend this.

Yea yea yea, Europe sucks, and the US has the highest obesity rate in the world. Who needs taxes *belch*?
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