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It actually shows the typical lack of understanding of economics exhibited by most Americans."Fleeing" high taxes to go to a lower tax state which sports a high unemployment rate and lack of infrastructure (mass transit/roads/poor schools) isn't particularly intelligent for the most part. Outside of California, the other states mentioned plus NH and VT have low unemployment rates, excellent schools and sufficient infrastructure. The short-sighted Fox News types will always see the benefit of fleeing to a state where taxes are lower, which helps maintain the balance otherwise. I say go for it if you're unhappy and enjoy all of those tax-free perks!
What about the Black Democrats that are leaving New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts for Conservative Republican States like Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, and Texas?????????????????
Minnesota is proof that the high tax/high quality public services model can work. The standard of living here is high, the public schools are good, crime is low, the economy is doing better than most of the country and the Twin Cities have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the US. Our population growth is pretty strong when you consider that people actively avoid moving here because of the weather.
Do we pay a bit more in taxes? Yes, but we get what we pay for.
What about the Black Democrats that are leaving New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts for Conservative Republican States like Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, and Texas?????????????????
You do know most of the blacks in NY/NJ/MA were rooted from the south anyway, right? Southern blacks fled to the North for jobs during the World Wars.
I don't know why people can't see that the North East already had it's time years ago. In today's time and day, it's the Souths turn. Just wait, in 20-30 Years- NC/FL/GA won't be so cheap anymore. The more they grow, the more expensive they become. You can already see the tax spikes in FL, and the hard time stabilizing job growth in NC.
Of course, Texas is a VAST state, so it has enough room to be "affordable", but well connected? Not really..
You also realize that MN/NJ/CT/MD/MA have the lowest poverty rates in America? Most of the people fleeing these states are middle class. Middle class in NJ will make you wealthy in GA/TX/NC.
I don't understand why people think it's such a bad thing to grow up and soak in the opportunities blue state have. It's the earnings people make in NJ/CT/MA/MD that get them the big house in the south. New Jersey for one is not meant to rapidly grow, it's expensive because it has to be- If it was affordable as GA it would be invaded.
But at the same time, those exact states are way ahead of the game in terms of wealth, education, accessibility and safety.
as if the south is going to gain all this ground overnight.
the south is leveling out the playing field and texas may surpass california economically. education is something each state can deal with. virginia is in the south and is in the top 10 in education and texas isn't bad either. some other states are behind educationally but it is what it is. a state as blue as california is near the friggin bottom dude. as for wealth, the south has a lower cost of living so there's not too much to brag about when you're making 60k in new york and someone in houston is making 40k and as i said earlier, you're bragging about wealth yet most of the wealthy in the north are republicans. fortune 500 companies are also seeming to love the south recently.
You do know most of the blacks in NY/NJ/MA were rooted from the south anyway, right? Southern blacks fled to the North for jobs during the World Wars.
I don't know why people can't see that the North East already had it's time years ago. In today's time and day, it's the Souths turn. Just wait, in 20-30 Years- NC/FL/GA won't be so cheap anymore. The more they grow, the more expensive they become. You can already see the tax spikes in FL, and the hard time stabilizing job growth in NC.
Of course, Texas is a VAST state, so it has enough room to be "affordable", but well connected? Not really..
You also realize that MN/NJ/CT/MD/MA have the lowest poverty rates in America? Most of the people fleeing these states are middle class. Middle class in NJ will make you wealthy in GA/TX/NC.
I don't understand why people think it's such a bad thing to grow up and soak in the opportunities blue state have. It's the earnings people make in NJ/CT/MA/MD that get them the big house in the south. New Jersey for one is not meant to rapidly grow, it's expensive because it has to be- If it was affordable as GA it would be invaded.
it will be the south's turn for a long time to come if we can keep our pro business policies in check.
also if nj was as affordable as ga it wouldn't be invaded because it would need the jobs to go with it. taxes are keeping high job growth away from northern states and the business friendly environment in the south is attracting businesses.
Ridiculously misleading statistics.
Pick up any "richest areas" in the United States list, and you will not see a single southern county, just more "unaffordable" areas with NY/NJ/CT/CA leading the pack.
Let's see:
#17- Williamson County, TN
#18- first CA county to make the list- Marin County, CA
#20- Forsyth Couty, GA
3 NJ counties made the list, 3 NY counties
8 Virginia Counties, 4 Maryland, 1 Utah, 1 PA, 1 CO
Hmm, what do you know- lots of southern counties on the list. Even if you throw out Virginia and Maryland as Mid Atlantic, you still have 2 true Southern counties- one in GA and one in TN. And the one in TN ranks higher than the first CA county listed.
Last edited by brentwoodgirl; 12-22-2010 at 09:02 PM..
Actually they are fleeing high cost of living states or places with poor economies. Although I do agree that some of these states should figure out how to get their taxes down.
CGP is conflating Republican political party with southernness, or something like that. But he/she doesn't seem to get that northern Republicans are generally of a different variety than the southern, bible-thumping, social conservatives. There's a huge difference between a Arny Schwaz. of California and Rick Perry of Texas, though both have got "R" affiliation to them.
Be that as it may.
My first and main point is this: states as economic drives aren't the best analysis tools. Metro areas and city clusters are what drive today's economy and tomorrow's gains. Southern metros, especially the ones in Texas, have been gain a lot of population in the past 20 years. Also lot of jobs and lot of corporate HQs. Good for them. But this growth isn't a zero sum game with metros in other parts of the country, and secondly, all this growth does come with costs and isn't infinite--and more to the point, future growth will likely happen only if the metros ante up their public goods...which cost money and thus taxes.
In population shifts, most people tend to move within a metro or close to it. If NY state is losing its middle class, most of them are moving from NY to PA or NJ or CT or in the same mid-Atlantic or Northeastern vicinity, and not to Alabama or Louisiana... NYC's metro now extends to the far reaches of CT and even PA, and if high speed rail is built, even more areas will be connected to the high powered Manhattan core.
People love to point out Texas as the new economic powerhouse, and sure, it is. But it's not like living in Texas is all hunky-dory. RenaudFR brings up Austin...the blueberry in tomato sauce of Texas bowl! lol And even there, the headaches of population growth have meant government spending on highways and other essentials. In Dallas area, a lot of Californians and others who moved in to far off suburbs on huge lots with huge-ass houses got surprised by Texas when the state gave up on trying to maintain the freeway (121)...cost too much money...so turned it into a toll road so now that you are a captive audience in your sprawled out subdivision and your job is a half-hour commute by road that can go to 1 hour if you don't pay to use the "new" toll road, you cough up the money, or have agonizing commutes.
Texas is cheap that way, but cost of population growth is such that you end up paying for it, one way or another. Texas' public universities lag those in California and other states, and that's something even The Economist magazine covered in its huge issue comparing Texas and California. So now Texas is going to spend more on its universities... and that money will have to be made up somehow, somewhere. It's not a free ride.
People moving to "cheap" South are probably the ones that took advantage of good public universities elsewhere on east or west coasts, got fine jobs, and now don't want to pay for a public good. Sooner or later, things even out, however. Either Texas and southern states ante up on their services game, or they continue to be the low-rent el-cheapo places that they're known to be and will gladly take the back-office and other jobs from East and West coasts. The corporate HQs will move in name just as so many billionaires have a "domicile" in Texas but do most of their living elsewhere...people game the system because there are so many ways to game it.
But eventually, if places like Dallas want to compete nationally and globally for the "creative" class, Dallas' sales pitch will eventually have to move beyond "come move here, our taxes are cheap" and into something more...things like the Trinity River project, which costs billions of dollars (a lot of it coming from Federal govt for now) and which will increase local real estate values such that it won't always be $150k for a median house in Dallas...in fact, if my numbers are correct, it no longer is that low.
it will be the south's turn for a long time to come if we can keep our pro business policies in check.
also if nj was as affordable as ga it wouldn't be invaded because it would need the jobs to go with it. taxes are keeping high job growth away from northern states and the business friendly environment in the south is attracting businesses.
I don't think you understand anything of what I'm saying.
The South will be expensive just like the north east in 20-30 years. It makes no sense to belittle the north east for not growing (ANYMORE) when its time of growth and prosperity was when ATL wasn't even a city. Besides, the North east has NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. The North was also the manufacturing mecca of this nation (before it moved to Asia)
It's the South's turn. It doesn't make the north east any more or less significant, it's just how a country works. You can't contnue to grow and grow and grow in a place like NJ when it's already the densest state in the middle of NYC/Philly. I'd say NJ isn't falling a part by any means, it's just stabilizing itself.
You do realize NJ is the 11th most populated state, but it's GDP ranking is #7, right?
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