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Old 02-17-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Southwest Michigan/Miami Beach Miami
1,949 posts, read 2,755,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
What's this "basically" stuff?

This is Southern Food:



This is Soul Food:



Or, as we call it in the South, Food.

There is no major difference between Soul Food and Southern food because black people invented both (who do you think did the cooking in massa's house during slave times). The cuisine is a convergence of African, English, Scottish, Irish, Cherokee and Creek influences. There are some slight variations in the type of dishes you will find depending on where you are, but it's all the same food. I seriously challenge anyone to say otherwise.
Thanks for making me even more hungry.

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Old 02-17-2011, 01:05 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,127,079 times
Reputation: 5742
Default Soul/Southern food

Regarding this whole Southern/Soul food discussion, I believe a lot of the misunderstandings are regional. And it probably got started back in the 60's with some of the sit-coms of the day, particularly those which featured a mostly black cast and setting. It was then when that expression "soul food" first really gained some recognition in the nationwide vernacular.

Thus, with most of the media and TV concerns being in the NE and California, it became almost exclusively associated with blacks in popular (i.e. non-Southern) mindset. In this same vein, it (soul food) provided a convenient vehicle for these producers to ridicule sterotypes (which actually they unwittingly created), by making sure to present black characters who shunned the stuff. This was usually done with some Archie Bunker type would be scripted to make a fool of himself by acting upon the assumption otherwise. Ok..fine...

The thing was though, that it confused many of us Southern whites because WE had also eaten this great crusine the yankees described as "soul", all our lives! (i.e. fried chicken, BBQ, greens, grits, black-eyed peas, fried okra, cornbread, watermelon, etc. etc.) What was so wrong with that? Many of us just thought the whole thing was silly. LOL

A definite pattern emerged: Whites from the north and far west tended to associate it with African Americans. On the other hand, Southerners -- both black AND white -- while acknowledging that the term "soul food" itself is more connected with the former -- really didn't see all that much difference between what other regions called "soul food" and the foodstuff that most native whites down here grew up eating as well.

Which is, perhaps, why the term "soul food", is not very commonly used by white Southerners and, when it is, it is almost always limited to those few items almost exclusively associated with the black community (chitlin's being a premier example). In a nutshell, what many non-Southerners called "soul" was, in reality, classic Southern country cookin'! Southerners however, generally confined the term to only a very small sub-genre of the cruisine.

Here is a true story which I think illustrates how Southern whites and blacks share a certain bond in this area that is often difficult for non-Southerners to understand. I have told this one before on other threads, but here it is again for some who might not have seen it. I think most native Southerners can relate to it:

It seems there was some huge plant up in Michigan (maybe they made cars) which employed so many folks they had a company cafeteria. There were all races/ethnic groups represented, including many blacks and whites originally from the South (particularly from Alabama, Tennessee and Texas). Anyway, because of this natural diversity, there were special "food days" set aside for the respective cultures. For instance, there would be a "Greek Day" or "Italian Day" featuring the specialized foods.

Ok. Well, a group of Southern whites went to the cafeteria managment and asked about having a "Southern Day", which would feature certain good stuff as catfish, black-eyed peas, greens, okra and grits and cornbread! (damn, makes me hungry just to think about it! LOL)

Anyway, it was agreed to do so, and the day was posted on the company bulletin board. Problem is though, it happened to fall on the Dr. Martin Luthur King holiday! This was just pure happenstance. But...the way it was translated to many northerners was that those (as everyone surely knows) naturally racist Southerners wanted to have a menu that, on MLK Day, would include such things as fried chicken and watermelon!

Oh man! Many northerners got "offended" and thought this was an intended insult...since none of them had any experience with the South. Their whole whole way of thinking was that what they regarded as "soul food" was to be exclusively associated with a so-called "negative stereotype" of blacks and, by extension, the Southern whites were making fun of them and denigrating the memory of Dr. King! (Geez. maybe they even expected a mintrel show! ).

As it turned out, not surprisingly at all, it was a group of Southern blacks who smoothed things over. They explained to management that "hey, down where we come from, ALL of us homefolk, black AND white eat this food. There is nothing racist about it."

I always thought there was something very noteworthy about that incident!

Last edited by TexasReb; 02-17-2011 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Southeastern Tennessee
711 posts, read 978,889 times
Reputation: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
What's this "basically" stuff?

This is Southern Food:



This is Soul Food:



Or, as we call it in the South, Food.

There is no major difference between Soul Food and Southern food because black people invented both (who do you think did the cooking in massa's house during slave times). The cuisine is a convergence of African, English, Scottish, Irish, Cherokee and Creek influences. There are some slight variations in the type of dishes you will find depending on where you are, but it's all the same food. I seriously challenge anyone to say otherwise.
Alright.

Quote:
We eat squash in Minnesota. Just saying....
Cool.
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:34 PM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,287,548 times
Reputation: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by brother's keeper View Post
Southern culture isn't generally celebrated by blacks..African American culture is..there's a difference...Again soul food is black food not Southern...Blackfolks make soul food all over the country not just the South.

HBCUs are associated with the South but again not necessarily Southern..There are HBCUs up North too..Even if all were found in the South that doesn't make them culturally Southern.

Interesting qoute but one blackman contrasting New Yorkers perceived rudeness in comparison to his upbringing in the South doesn't= most African Americans raised in Dixie being proud Southerners.

I disagree...Blacks raised in the South don't typically hold that as a badge of honor like Southern bred whitefolk..
You don't see the connection between Southern cuture and African American culture? Soul Food comes from the South. It is only in places like New York, Chicago, and LA because blacks from the South moved to those places and took it with them. Blues is the backbone of all African American music. It's origin and defining characteristics are distinctly Southern. Jazz originated down South as well. The "Southerness" in African Americans in other regions is very evident if you look close enough. There is a reason many blacks from Chicago sound like are from Mississippi. There is a strong historical connection between blacks in Chicago and blacks in Mississippi. The same connection is there between folks from Los Angeles and Louisiana and Texas. A good number of blacks in Los Angeles can trace their families back to Northern Lousiana or Southern Texas.

Maybe you just don't like the South. And if so, you are free to feel that way. However, there is no denying the very strong connection between traditional African American culture and the Southeast. I don't think the two could exist without one another.
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 13,299,183 times
Reputation: 2934
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Psst. Jeff Foxworthy doesn't even live here anymore, even if he did that's just a stage persona. Dude used to be an engineer at IBM. You have to be smart to do that. Besides, most white dudes in Atlanta aren't like that at all. To think that they are shows you probably have no familiarity with the subject.




Dude, there are plenty of latinos and asians (including half of myself) that were born and raised in the South. Try telling them they aren't Southerners either.

Look I get that you don't like the South or Southern culture and are ashamed of that. That's your prerogative and you are welcome to it, just don't project your issues on to others. Especially those things that are demonstrably not true.
Could have easily said Ryan Seacrest or Ty,Pennington who are from Atlanta. Not much "redneck" there.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:32 AM
 
314 posts, read 643,075 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon704 View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that all Southern restaurants have nothing but soul food on their menus, but soul food definitely originated from the South and is still generally recognized as Southern comfort food, although it has obviously been imported all throughout the country.

As far as the "Black Southern pride" thing goes, I tend to view that in the same sense as Black American pride: Blacks have it, but there aren't typically high levels of physical expression involved, and it's very nuanced and somewhat complex given our mostly negative history with the powers-that-be in this country.
I addressed that issue already...Soul food is is apart of black culture more so than Southern regardless of region...The fact that it was most likely originated in the South is irrelevant cause blacks have borrowed cultural practices from blacks from other regions through out history and incorporated it their own lifestyles...Black culture transcends region due to this fact.

You should just speak for yourself cause I know you can't read the minds muchless spoken to most Southern blacks on their feelings toward Southern pride.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:52 AM
 
314 posts, read 643,075 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Psst. Jeff Foxworthy doesn't even live here anymore, even if he did that's just a stage persona. Dude used to be an engineer at IBM. You have to be smart to do that. Besides, most white dudes in Atlanta aren't like that at all. To think that they are shows you probably have no familiarity with the subject.




Dude, there are plenty of latinos and asians (including half of myself) that were born and raised in the South. Try telling them they aren't Southerners either.

Look I get that you don't like the South or Southern culture and are ashamed of that. That's your prerogative and you are welcome to it, just don't project your issues on to others. Especially those things that are demonstrably not true.
What does Jeff living in the ATL now has to do with anything? The fact still remains that he was born and raised in the Southern metropolis of Atlanta and was still and proud redneck..Who are you to claim his persona was an act?...Looks and sounds authentic to me...I mean he made a career out of exploiting his Southern hick upbringing heritage..Obviously you can take the redneck out the backwoods but can't take the backwoods out the redneck...I would guess Jeff Foxwothy IBM gig was due to good ole boy connections and more so than qualifications..


I never denied that plenty of Latinos and Asians were born in Dixie..What I said is most Southerners(white and black) look at you as foreigners most likely cause you been in the region for relatively a short period of time since it's existence.

Who said I'm ashamed of Southern culture? If anything i''m slightly biased toward Southern black culture but not to the point I let my bias skew reality.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:56 AM
 
314 posts, read 643,075 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
What's this "basically" stuff?

This is Southern Food:



This is Soul Food:



Or, as we call it in the South, Food.

There is no major difference between Soul Food and Southern food because black people invented both (who do you think did the cooking in massa's house during slave times). The cuisine is a convergence of African, English, Scottish, Irish, Cherokee and Creek influences. There are some slight variations in the type of dishes you will find depending on where you are, but it's all the same food. I seriously challenge anyone to say otherwise.

Which is why I consider soul food Afro American and not Southern.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:34 AM
 
314 posts, read 643,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina Blue View Post
Seeing that you’re one of the people who said, “I consider Baltimore the South”, you can count on practically one hand the number of HBCU’s “Up North”. To be certain, HBCU’s are associated with the South in the black community. They are "culturally associated with the South", from everything to fraternity and sorority stepping, to the marching bands. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Others have chimed in on the food issue, which again, you’re dead wrong about. Soul Food is Southern Food. Unfortunately it’s like music sometimes, how when blacks and whites do the same type of songs, but they get labeled differently. If society would allow white people to name their restaurants “Soul Food” restaurants, that’s what places like The Lady & Sons in Savannah would be called, because they serve the same thing as places like Sylvia’s in Harlem.

What’s really funny, is that you’re saying “the majority of blacks don’t have Southern pride”, yet you’re clearly outnumbered on this board by the number of blacks who keep chiming in saying we indeed do. LMAO!!!
Most HBCUs found in the South but there are more outside the South than you are given credit.

Pennsylvania has 2 HBCUs(Lincoln University,Cheyney Univ. of Penn)

Ohio also has a couple(Central State University, Wilberforce Univ.)

Missouri has 2 more (Harris-Stowe State University,Lincoln Univ. of Missouri)

Cali has one(Charles Drew Univ. of Medicine and Science)

Michigan has Lewis College of Business

Even the Virgin Islands has one HBCU(Unversity of the Virgin Islands)

So HBCUs are clearly exclusively Southern..That's not even accounting all the blacks from regions from outside the South that attend HBCUs located here.

For the last time soul food is Afro American food not Southern cause it was created by and consumed by mostly people of Afro American background regardless of region..More Afro Americans from regions out the South eat soul food than Southern whites.

Whom's to say everyone chiming on here is African American? I can only recall maybe a couple of guys besides you disputing what i'm saying and one was Asian..Besides the opinions of those on message board not a good way to judge the consensus feelings of Afro Americans in reality.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:40 AM
 
314 posts, read 643,075 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Regarding this whole Southern/Soul food discussion, I believe a lot of the misunderstandings are regional. And it probably got started back in the 60's with some of the sit-coms of the day, particularly those which featured a mostly black cast and setting. It was then when that expression "soul food" first really gained some recognition in the nationwide vernacular.

Thus, with most of the media and TV concerns being in the NE and California, it became almost exclusively associated with blacks in popular (i.e. non-Southern) mindset. In this same vein, it (soul food) provided a convenient vehicle for these producers to ridicule sterotypes (which actually they unwittingly created), by making sure to present black characters who shunned the stuff. This was usually done with some Archie Bunker type would be scripted to make a fool of himself by acting upon the assumption otherwise. Ok..fine...

The thing was though, that it confused many of us Southern whites because WE had also eaten this great crusine the yankees described as "soul", all our lives! (i.e. fried chicken, BBQ, greens, grits, black-eyed peas, fried okra, cornbread, watermelon, etc. etc.) What was so wrong with that? Many of us just thought the whole thing was silly. LOL

A definite pattern emerged: Whites from the north and far west tended to associate it with African Americans. On the other hand, Southerners -- both black AND white -- while acknowledging that the term "soul food" itself is more connected with the former -- really didn't see all that much difference between what other regions called "soul food" and the foodstuff that most native whites down here grew up eating as well.

Which is, perhaps, why the term "soul food", is not very commonly used by white Southerners and, when it is, it is almost always limited to those few items almost exclusively associated with the black community (chitlin's being a premier example). In a nutshell, what many non-Southerners called "soul" was, in reality, classic Southern country cookin'! Southerners however, generally confined the term to only a very small sub-genre of the cruisine.

Here is a true story which I think illustrates how Southern whites and blacks share a certain bond in this area that is often difficult for non-Southerners to understand. I have told this one before on other threads, but here it is again for some who might not have seen it. I think most native Southerners can relate to it:

It seems there was some huge plant up in Michigan (maybe they made cars) which employed so many folks they had a company cafeteria. There were all races/ethnic groups represented, including many blacks and whites originally from the South (particularly from Alabama, Tennessee and Texas). Anyway, because of this natural diversity, there were special "food days" set aside for the respective cultures. For instance, there would be a "Greek Day" or "Italian Day" featuring the specialized foods.

Ok. Well, a group of Southern whites went to the cafeteria managment and asked about having a "Southern Day", which would feature certain good stuff as catfish, black-eyed peas, greens, okra and grits and cornbread! (damn, makes me hungry just to think about it! LOL)

Anyway, it was agreed to do so, and the day was posted on the company bulletin board. Problem is though, it happened to fall on the Dr. Martin Luthur King holiday! This was just pure happenstance. But...the way it was translated to many northerners was that those (as everyone surely knows) naturally racist Southerners wanted to have a menu that, on MLK Day, would include such things as fried chicken and watermelon!

Oh man! Many northerners got "offended" and thought this was an intended insult...since none of them had any experience with the South. Their whole whole way of thinking was that what they regarded as "soul food" was to be exclusively associated with a so-called "negative stereotype" of blacks and, by extension, the Southern whites were making fun of them and denigrating the memory of Dr. King! (Geez. maybe they even expected a mintrel show! ).

As it turned out, not surprisingly at all, it was a group of Southern blacks who smoothed things over. They explained to management that "hey, down where we come from, ALL of us homefolk, black AND white eat this food. There is nothing racist about it."

I always thought there was something very noteworthy about that incident!
I've ate at Southern white establishments and soul food is far from your main entries..Denny for instance isn't known for soul food..When Southern whites want to eat soul food the resteraunts they go to are either African American or have AA cooks and it's generally acknowledge they like black food.
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