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Old 02-18-2011, 10:48 AM
 
314 posts, read 756,282 times
Reputation: 123

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
You don't see the connection between Southern cuture and African American culture? Soul Food comes from the South. It is only in places like New York, Chicago, and LA because blacks from the South moved to those places and took it with them. Blues is the backbone of all African American music. It's origin and defining characteristics are distinctly Southern. Jazz originated down South as well. The "Southerness" in African Americans in other regions is very evident if you look close enough. There is a reason many blacks from Chicago sound like are from Mississippi. There is a strong historical connection between blacks in Chicago and blacks in Mississippi. The same connection is there between folks from Los Angeles and Louisiana and Texas. A good number of blacks in Los Angeles can trace their families back to Northern Lousiana or Southern Texas.

Maybe you just don't like the South. And if so, you are free to feel that way. However, there is no denying the very strong connection between traditional African American culture and the Southeast. I don't think the two could exist without one another.
No I see the connection between African Americans regardless of their region..For the last time soul food coming from the South is irrelevant since it's distinctly African American food which transcends region....Blues described the African American experience not Southern..If it was purely.. Southern Northern metropolis such as Chicago wouldn't have had such a thriving blues scene..Most blacks in Chicago don't sound neutral to me and Cali blacks probably have distinct West Coast black accents that sound far from Southern..

Like I've said previously...I don't have any emotional connections to any region in particular... African American culture would've and has existed without the South..Not all African Americans have roots in the South.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,984 posts, read 13,352,431 times
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Soul food is southern. Black culture -- at least what most people think of as black culture -- is Southern. There are (black) people from Michigan who sound like they're from the Deep South. Give it a rest. If you don't like the South (I can't blame you for that) then move north.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:55 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,468 posts, read 14,904,169 times
Reputation: 7263
Quote:
Originally Posted by brother's keeper View Post
What does Jeff living in the ATL now has to do with anything? The fact still remains that he was born and raised in the Southern metropolis of Atlanta and was still and proud redneck..Who are you to claim his persona was an act?...Looks and sounds authentic to me...I mean he made a career out of exploiting his Southern hick upbringing heritage..Obviously you can take the redneck out the backwoods but can't take the backwoods out the redneck...I would guess Jeff Foxwothy IBM gig was due to good ole boy connections and more so than qualifications..
It is very much a valid point. For one, he grew up in Hapeville (not Atlanta) which is a town on the outskirts of the city and basically revolved around the Ford car plant there. The reason why there were a lot of rednecks there wasn't because it was country (actually quite the opposite as the city is primarily industrial) but because a lot of rednecks migrated there for factory jobs. Beginning in the 80s though, white flight began to occur and those same families left Hapeville in droves.

In their place, the city began to fill with Black people, Lations and Asians. As a matter of fact, the city is:

43.5% Latino
28.8% White
16.5% Black
9.6% Asian

37% of the population is Foreign born

And, a biggie, English is a secondary language for 51.3% of population.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...false&-format=

I say all of this to highlight the fact that Hapeville is vastly different than what it was 40 or so years ago when Jeff Foxworthy lived there, hell most of the population doesn't even speak English. With all of the above, it makes your little dig at Atlanta being a metropolis a little funny given that these types of stats aren't uncommon around the city, but especially since it's Jeff Foxworthy's hometown is an extremely diverse and multicultural town now.

Aside from that though, I know it's an act because I grew up on that side of town in East Point and trust me, it's not redneckville. That should be obvious from all of the rappers that have came out of there. More importantly though, if you look at Foxworthy's bio he grew up in a middle class house where his father was a manager at IBM, he then went on to study at Georgia Tech, and then working at IBM himself (yeah, when you go to Georgia Tech you need the gool ol' boy network to get you in the door at one of the largest computer manufacturers on planet Earth ) when he decided to start a career in comedy based no doubt on his experiences with is family out in the country rather than where he grew up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brother's keeper View Post
I never denied that plenty of Latinos and Asians were born in Dixie..What I said is most Southerners(white and black) look at you as foreigners most likely cause you been in the region for relatively a short period of time since it's existence.
Say what?

This might be how things role in whatever podunk town you live in, but not around here and especially in areas where immigrants and their children dominate. I was born here and I add my own background to the larger Southern experience. I could give a damn what any one "thinks" I am, I was born here and a Southerner as well as all of my friends who's parents came here from Asia, Africa, Europe or other parts of the country. Just because the only version of Southern you know is the country and redneck variety is no excuse for me to throw out my own separate Southern identity that has nothing to do with that backwoods nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brother's keeper View Post
Who said I'm ashamed of Southern culture? If anything i''m slightly biased toward Southern black culture but not to the point I let my bias skew reality.
Ashamed or hate, it's clear there is something about Southern culture that makes you not have the highest regard for it. There is a whole lot not to like about Southern culture, but there is far more to celebrate. You should travel around the South a bit more and experience all of the different aspects of it instead of viewing things from your very small (and skewed) view.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:59 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,509,977 times
Reputation: 5942
Quote:
Originally Posted by brother's keeper View Post
I've ate at Southern white establishments and soul food is far from your main entries..Denny for instance isn't known for soul food..When Southern whites want to eat soul food the resteraunts they go to are either African American or have AA cooks and it's generally acknowledge they like black food.
I think you missed the point. Either that or we are talking past each other.

What I said was that the definition of "soul food" is often lost in the translation between Southerners and those outside the region.

What is often defined as soul food by the latter bunch generally fits the criteria of what Southerners know as just plain ol' Southern and/or country cooking. I am talking about fried chicken, catfish, chicken-fried steak, real BBQ, fried okra, greens, grits, cornbread, etc. This isn't "soul food" to us, it is just food (as another poster accurately noted!).

Most of us natives grew up on this stuff just as much as did our black counterparts...and we didn't need to go to a black-owned restaurant or hire a black cook to fix it up. Our mothers and grandmothers did it just as well, and it was standard fare in most restaurants (I am not talking the chains of today, I mean real home-owned local restaurants and cafes). Hell, it was standard fare not only in public establishments, but home-kitchens, family reunions, church suppers and dinner on the grounds.

On the other hand, when most white Southerners use the term soul food at all, it had a much, MUCH narrower definition. That is to say, it generally referred to things like, say, chitlins or something, which actually DID have an almost exclusive connection with the black community (and really, other than chitlins, I can't think of much else, to be honest! LOL).

Does that clear things up a little?
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
265 posts, read 327,875 times
Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by brother's keeper View Post
I addressed that issue already...Soul food is is apart of black culture more so than Southern regardless of region...The fact that it was most likely originated in the South is irrelevant cause blacks have borrowed cultural practices from blacks from other regions through out history and incorporated it their own lifestyles...Black culture transcends region due to this fact.
I disagree. Soul food and Southern comfort food/country cooking, as many Whites call it, is essentially the same thing with very little variation. This type of cuisine originated in the South and only exists in other regions of the country because Southerners transported it there when they moved.

Quote:
You should just speak for yourself cause I know you can't read the minds muchless spoken to most Southern blacks on their feelings toward Southern pride.
Haven't you been the main one trying to read the minds of Southerners claiming they don't have any Southern pride? This is a discussion and everyone is more or less relying on anecdotal information. Yours is just as valid as mine in this case. And it seems as though you failed to realize that I was actually agreeing with you somewhat.
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
265 posts, read 327,875 times
Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by brother's keeper View Post
No I see the connection between African Americans regardless of their region..For the last time soul food coming from the South is irrelevant since it's distinctly African American food which transcends region....Blues described the African American experience not Southern..If it was purely.. Southern Northern metropolis such as Chicago wouldn't have had such a thriving blues scene..Most blacks in Chicago don't sound neutral to me and Cali blacks probably have distinct West Coast black accents that sound far from Southern..
This doesn't make sense. You're essentially saying that these things originating in the South is irrelevant, but that's the very thing that we're debating. These things exist in other regions of the country because they were imported there by Blacks when they began moving there via the Great Migration. This is a well-known fact which seems to be lost on you, which is puzzling.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:31 PM
 
314 posts, read 756,282 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Soul food is southern. Black culture -- at least what most people think of as black culture -- is Southern. There are (black) people from Michigan who sound like they're from the Deep South. Give it a rest. If you don't like the South (I can't blame you for that) then move north.
Nah...the same way apple pie is all American desert which transcends region soul food Afro American cuisine not regional.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:53 PM
 
314 posts, read 756,282 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
It is very much a valid point. For one, he grew up in Hapeville (not Atlanta) which is a town on the outskirts of the city and basically revolved around the Ford car plant there. The reason why there were a lot of rednecks there wasn't because it was country (actually quite the opposite as the city is primarily industrial) but because a lot of rednecks migrated there for factory jobs. Beginning in the 80s though, white flight began to occur and those same families left Hapeville in droves.

In their place, the city began to fill with Black people, Lations and Asians. As a matter of fact, the city is:

43.5% Latino
28.8% White
16.5% Black
9.6% Asian

37% of the population is Foreign born

And, a biggie, English is a secondary language for 51.3% of population.

Hapeville city, Georgia - Selected Social Characteristics in the United States: 2005-2009

I say all of this to highlight the fact that Hapeville is vastly different than what it was 40 or so years ago when Jeff Foxworthy lived there, hell most of the population doesn't even speak English. With all of the above, it makes your little dig at Atlanta being a metropolis a little funny given that these types of stats aren't uncommon around the city, but especially since it's Jeff Foxworthy's hometown is an extremely diverse and multicultural town now.

Aside from that though, I know it's an act because I grew up on that side of town in East Point and trust me, it's not redneckville. That should be obvious from all of the rappers that have came out of there. More importantly though, if you look at Foxworthy's bio he grew up in a middle class house where his father was a manager at IBM, he then went on to study at Georgia Tech, and then working at IBM himself (yeah, when you go to Georgia Tech you need the gool ol' boy network to get you in the door at one of the largest computer manufacturers on planet Earth ) when he decided to start a career in comedy based no doubt on his experiences with is family out in the country rather than where he grew up.



Say what?

This might be how things role in whatever podunk town you live in, but not around here and especially in areas where immigrants and their children dominate. I was born here and I add my own background to the larger Southern experience. I could give a damn what any one "thinks" I am, I was born here and a Southerner as well as all of my friends who's parents came here from Asia, Africa, Europe or other parts of the country. Just because the only version of Southern you know is the country and redneck variety is no excuse for me to throw out my own separate Southern identity that has nothing to do with that backwoods nonsense.



Ashamed or hate, it's clear there is something about Southern culture that makes you not have the highest regard for it. There is a whole lot not to like about Southern culture, but there is far more to celebrate. You should travel around the South a bit more and experience all of the different aspects of it instead of viewing things from your very small (and skewed) view.
-Your splitting hairs..Just admit that despite it's urbanity Atlanta has it's share of rednecks...Considering white Southerners are still the largest ethnic group in metro Atlanta I would assume there is no shortage of hillbillies in metro Atlanta.

-Being a redneck is a lifestyle not an social class....Some of the most powerful people in the South are or were rednecks....Most of the wealthy segregationist politicians during Jim Crow were rednecks..andNot that he's Southern but Kid Rock is an infamous redneck musicians whom parents were rich.

-Uh...imo Asians and Latinos are looked at as foreigners by most Americans regardless of region or size of the community they grew up in...It's just a stereotype that's hard to shack.

-I have deep contempt and disgust for the Old South..but proud of African American culture(including those formed in the South)..All i'm saying is that I don't feel any ancestral bond with this region as some are trying to apply I should and African American culture doesn't= Southern.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:57 PM
 
314 posts, read 756,282 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
I think you missed the point. Either that or we are talking past each other.

What I said was that the definition of "soul food" is often lost in the translation between Southerners and those outside the region.

What is often defined as soul food by the latter bunch generally fits the criteria of what Southerners know as just plain ol' Southern and/or country cooking. I am talking about fried chicken, catfish, chicken-fried steak, real BBQ, fried okra, greens, grits, cornbread, etc. This isn't "soul food" to us, it is just food (as another poster accurately noted!).

Most of us natives grew up on this stuff just as much as did our black counterparts...and we didn't need to go to a black-owned restaurant or hire a black cook to fix it up. Our mothers and grandmothers did it just as well, and it was standard fare in most restaurants (I am not talking the chains of today, I mean real home-owned local restaurants and cafes). Hell, it was standard fare not only in public establishments, but home-kitchens, family reunions, church suppers and dinner on the grounds.

On the other hand, when most white Southerners use the term soul food at all, it had a much, MUCH narrower definition. That is to say, it generally referred to things like, say, chitlins or something, which actually DID have an almost exclusive connection with the black community (and really, other than chitlins, I can't think of much else, to be honest! LOL).

Does that clear things up a little?
Well..I didn't read all of that 1st essay you wrote but nah...most of those entries you mentioned are soul food..Just cause Southern whites adopted some of our recipes doesn't make it Southern...no more than whites doing Jazz makes it an Caucasian art form.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:05 PM
 
314 posts, read 756,282 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon704 View Post
I disagree. Soul food and Southern comfort food/country cooking, as many Whites call it, is essentially the same thing with very little variation. This type of cuisine originated in the South and only exists in other regions of the country because Southerners transported it there when they moved.

Haven't you been the main one trying to read the minds of Southerners claiming they don't have any Southern pride? This is a discussion and everyone is more or less relying on anecdotal information. Yours is just as valid as mine in this case. And it seems as though you failed to realize that I was actually agreeing with you somewhat.
-Soul food dishes being adopted by Southern whites doesn't make soul food Southern...

-The difference is i'm basing my observation on the fact you never really hear/see African Americans(even in the South) expressing Southern pride where as you are only assuming most have Southern pride cause it's your gut feelings)
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