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Old 04-28-2012, 11:03 AM
 
Location: South Central Nebraska
350 posts, read 630,426 times
Reputation: 280

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I guess I'm different than other people that I would hate to live in the Sunbelt. There is a lot more crime, too many subdivisions and lack of planning for growth, and the worst part is that there is a serious lack of jobs or if you find one the pay is not very good for the cost of living. Retirees have driven up the cost of living/housing in these "low cost"/low wage states. I would rather deal with cold winters and hot summers and live in an area that is not "quite as scenic" than have to be un or underemployed, working two jobs to make ends meet, dealing with crime, and living in the dichotomy between rich and poor that are the Sunbelt states. I don't view these as positive attributes. The Sunbelt states may attract manufacturers or plants by heavily subsidizing them through incentives (competiting amongst each other to continually lure jobs away from one state to another). The Sunbelt states may offer plenty of jobs in retail (hint: long hours and low pay), tourism (long hours and low pay), or healthcare (one of the only positive jobs in a Sunbelt state), and just enough manufacturing jobs that they have 100 applicants for one job (said manufacturing jobs now paying so low that they approach the retail sector in terms of inadequacy of wages). I'd rather live in my ag state. Most people don't get rich here but we do live nicely and there is a much larger middle class. With the amount of people there are in the world, the rise in commodity prices, and the continual need to eat, I predict a continually strong ag sector. Let the "hip" Sunbelt states and China duke it out on a race to the bottom with incentives and wages. The grass is definitely not greener.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:37 PM
 
29,944 posts, read 27,386,421 times
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Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
A younger workforce based on what, though? Hispanic immigrants? Youth just doesn't count as much for high-tech or manufacturing jobs that require advanced degrees. When it comes to education, the North leads by far. And many of the Sun Belt states have the fastest-growing senior populations.
No, based on domestic migration rates and natural increase. And many manufacturing jobs don't need people with advanced degrees; the noted skills gap that exists can, in many cases (not all but many), be plugged with training and degrees obtained at community colleges. And the big manufacturing centers of the Midwest don't have any sort of considerable advantage over areas of the Sunbelt when it comes to advanced degrees. The areas of the Sunbelt that are experiencing rapid increases in the senior population aren't the manufacturing centers. Very interestingly, when you look at it by metro areas, you see cities with more high-tech and professional sectors like Raleigh, Austin, Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte, etc. leading the pack and they are also known as cities with lots of educated young people, more so than the old industrial cities of the Rustbelt.

Quote:
And yes, the Sun Belt has been taking full use of the available methods of corporate extortion (incentives is a very nice way to put it). However, if the base cost of doing business is competitive in both areas (and it wasn't for a long time), there's going to have to be other fundamental reasons for a company to move operations in the future.
Well parts of the Sunbelt are quickly building the infrastructure necessary to be competitive talent pools in the near future, and of course you've got the closer proximity to ports (which could matter even more with the Panama Canal expansion). If anything, the debates over labor in the Midwest could result in a really definitive upper hand. Indiana, for instance, recently became a right-to-work state.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:42 PM
 
29,944 posts, read 27,386,421 times
Reputation: 18522
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCentralNEGuy View Post
I guess I'm different than other people that I would hate to live in the Sunbelt. There is a lot more crime, too many subdivisions and lack of planning for growth, and the worst part is that there is a serious lack of jobs or if you find one the pay is not very good for the cost of living. Retirees have driven up the cost of living/housing in these "low cost"/low wage states. I would rather deal with cold winters and hot summers and live in an area that is not "quite as scenic" than have to be un or underemployed, working two jobs to make ends meet, dealing with crime, and living in the dichotomy between rich and poor that are the Sunbelt states. I don't view these as positive attributes. The Sunbelt states may attract manufacturers or plants by heavily subsidizing them through incentives (competiting amongst each other to continually lure jobs away from one state to another). The Sunbelt states may offer plenty of jobs in retail (hint: long hours and low pay), tourism (long hours and low pay), or healthcare (one of the only positive jobs in a Sunbelt state), and just enough manufacturing jobs that they have 100 applicants for one job (said manufacturing jobs now paying so low that they approach the retail sector in terms of inadequacy of wages). I'd rather live in my ag state. Most people don't get rich here but we do live nicely and there is a much larger middle class. With the amount of people there are in the world, the rise in commodity prices, and the continual need to eat, I predict a continually strong ag sector. Let the "hip" Sunbelt states and China duke it out on a race to the bottom with incentives and wages. The grass is definitely not greener.
Every place is a tradeoff and every place isn't for everyone. Personally, I'll take the dynamic cities, varied geography, interesting history, cultural diversity, etc. of parts of the Sunbelt over parts of the Midwest, particularly the Great Plains. I'd just go out of my mind if I had to live there, but that's just me.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:17 PM
 
Location: South Central Nebraska
350 posts, read 630,426 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Every place is a tradeoff and every place isn't for everyone. Personally, I'll take the dynamic cities, varied geography, interesting history, cultural diversity, etc. of parts of the Sunbelt over parts of the Midwest, particularly the Great Plains. I'd just go out of my mind if I had to live there, but that's just me.
Have you ever been to the Plains? I'm not sure a lot of people do that harbor negative attitudes towards it. I agree that the Sunbelt has some great attributes to it - its just those attributes I would much prefer to enjoy as a visitor than living there.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:33 PM
 
29,944 posts, read 27,386,421 times
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Originally Posted by SCentralNEGuy View Post
Have you ever been to the Plains? I'm not sure a lot of people do that harbor negative attitudes towards it.
I don't necessarily harbor a negative attitude to it and it certainly has its redeeming qualities, but as a single Black guy in my early 30's who works in public health/life sciences and is native to the South, I enjoy this part of the country better. I could do parts of the Midwest, but not the Great Plains.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:22 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,051,512 times
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I don't necessarily harbor a negative attitude to it and it certainly has its redeeming qualities, but as a single Black guy in my early 30's who works in public health/life sciences and is native to the South, I enjoy this part of the country better. I could do parts of the Midwest, but not the Great Plains.
I think both you guys prove the "no place like home" phenomenon. I've lived in the NE, the South and the Midwest and have traveled extensively in the west, the plains and the the rest of the country (but not Hawaii). I've found positive attributes in every region, but I still have a great affinity for the city I grew up in the the Rust Belt, even though I haven't lived there for decades and most Americans not from that region avoid it. That's why I can understand how someone from a small "town" in FL that is nothing but a sprawl of convenience stores and strip malls among concrete block houses with cars parked in the yards, or someone from a town in Iowa that is but a wide spot in the highway with a steel pole building for a city hall and the pervasive smell of animal manure, or a dusty desert sprawling auto-dependent suburb, or a boarded up mill town in New England, can be proud of their home town and not want to live anywhere else, despite the fact that I and many other Americans wouldn't want to live there on a bet. To each their own, but there's no place like home.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:01 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,807,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
No, based on domestic migration rates and natural increase. And many manufacturing jobs don't need people with advanced degrees; the noted skills gap that exists can, in many cases (not all but many), be plugged with training and degrees obtained at community colleges. And the big manufacturing centers of the Midwest don't have any sort of considerable advantage over areas of the Sunbelt when it comes to advanced degrees. The areas of the Sunbelt that are experiencing rapid increases in the senior population aren't the manufacturing centers. Very interestingly, when you look at it by metro areas, you see cities with more high-tech and professional sectors like Raleigh, Austin, Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte, etc. leading the pack and they are also known as cities with lots of educated young people, more so than the old industrial cities of the Rustbelt.
I can only speak for Raleigh but I imagine a similar pattern might exist in other fast growing Sunbelt metros.
Since the mid 60s, tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of transferees mainly from the Northeast have called Raleigh and surrounds their new home. My family is among those numbers though we came from the West and not the Northeast. The individuals and families transferring to the area were typically white collar and professional and their numbers increased the % of college educated citizenry over time to the point where Raleigh sits among the most educated areas in the nation. Many of these early transferees were retiring in the 2000s. This included my parents who crossed that line in the last decade. Today, I see an enormous influx of retired transferees from the NE and other places as they follow their children and grandchildren to NC. Oddly enough, Raleigh is growing its retired population faster than most areas of the nation but also remains a place that attracts the younger generation to start and build their careers. But, then again, Raleigh is one of the fastest growing larger cities in the nation. So, it would be easy to understand that all age demographics in the area might be among the nation's fastest growing.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:05 PM
Status: "Dow hits new high - over 27,000!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
46,878 posts, read 37,036,075 times
Reputation: 28348
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Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Despite gentrification in urban cities, the migration downwards is soaring and isn't expected to end any time soon. Construction and real estate is going to continue although there were setbacks in those sectors due to the recession. Not only are blacks and hispanics leaving the NE as the years go by, whites are leaving in huge numbers as well.



As much as we don't like it, the housing boom is coming back.


The sunbelt boom is not going to end probably until the next 20 years.

It may not end even after 20 years, especially if northern cities continue an economic spiral. There are also so many advantages to living and working in southern tier states (better year-round weather most notably). In states where taxes are lower, commerce would only grow in those places. More businesses are choosing to set up shop down here and many families are planting roots. I won't rule out the possibility of migration leveling out, and it could, but I don't see it happening.

Now, if things up north improve in, say, five years, then you won't see as many people migrating southward. Not from up there, anyway.
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:49 PM
 
Location: South Central Nebraska
350 posts, read 630,426 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by case44 View Post
It may not end even after 20 years, especially if northern cities continue an economic spiral. There are also so many advantages to living and working in southern tier states (better year-round weather most notably). In states where taxes are lower, commerce would only grow in those places. More businesses are choosing to set up shop down here and many families are planting roots. I won't rule out the possibility of migration leveling out, and it could, but I don't see it happening.

Now, if things up north improve in, say, five years, then you won't see as many people migrating southward. Not from up there, anyway.
There's a different between the Southeast and the South Central states (Oklahoma and Texas). The economy is much better in Texas and Oklahoma than in the Carolinas or Georgia. Together with the Central and Northern Plains and Wyoming, Texas and Oklahoma are good places to move to!
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 10,140,743 times
Reputation: 2384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Every place is a tradeoff and every place isn't for everyone. Personally, I'll take the dynamic cities, varied geography, interesting history, cultural diversity, etc. of parts of the Sunbelt over parts of the Midwest, particularly the Great Plains. I'd just go out of my mind if I had to live there, but that's just me.
That's how many Northerners view the South.....boring AND ignorant. So much for perceptions, right?
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