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Old 04-29-2012, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 10,136,989 times
Reputation: 2384

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Quote:
Originally Posted by case44 View Post
It may not end even after 20 years, especially if northern cities continue an economic spiral. There are also so many advantages to living and working in southern tier states (better year-round weather most notably). In states where taxes are lower, commerce would only grow in those places. More businesses are choosing to set up shop down here and many families are planting roots. I won't rule out the possibility of migration leveling out, and it could, but I don't see it happening.

Now, if things up north improve in, say, five years, then you won't see as many people migrating southward. Not from up there, anyway.
You HAVE to understand that by adding new people comes new costs, and hence, new taxes and increased land values. You can't literally have your cake and eat it too. The pros of living in the South can and will become cons the more things even out. Simple economics....there is no such thing as arbitrage in a capitalist economy!

Also, "better weather" is seriously subjective here!
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:20 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
797 posts, read 1,159,241 times
Reputation: 631
I think people are really generalizing the term "Sunbelt". It covers about three distinct regions, 1/3 of the United States, and each state has different economies and attributes. There are some sunbelt states that are really attracting people and some that are not. Then there are states that have great economies, middle economies, or poor economies and some states have low unemployment and high unemployment. I mean can you really compare Mississippi and Georgia when it comes to attracting people and such.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,920,328 times
Reputation: 10536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
I think people are really generalizing the term "Sunbelt". It covers about three distinct regions, 1/3 of the United States, and each state has different economies and attributes. There are some sunbelt states that are really attracting people and some that are not. Then there are states that have great economies, middle economies, or poor economies and some states have low unemployment and high unemployment. I mean can you really compare Mississippi and Georgia when it comes to attracting people and such.
I think it's more that only parts of the South are really in the Sun Belt. I'd disagree, for example, that the Gulf Coast is really part of the sun belt, as the population there is stagnant to shrinking, not dynamic in the least.

Regardless, the South has a huge range. On one end, you have the major metros, like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Charlotte, Triangle Area, etc - where virtually all the growth is.

On the other you have the rural areas and smaller cities, where the only two dynamics working in the favor are the the retirement of northerners (in places, mostly the mountains or along the coast), and the relocation of manufacturing - usually to isolated towns in the middle of nowhere, so the population will become reliant and the companies can make extra-super-sure there will be no unionization and they can keep poverty wages as long as possible. Mind you, this is more than a lot of rural areas in the north have these days, but it's pretty thin gruel.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,052,687 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Do you have a link? I have Brookings links and BLS links and these don't match what I have.
Brookings - Quality. Independence. Impact.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,163,980 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
True. We lived in a house in Miami with no air conditioning for 2 summers when I was growing up. Summer days were tolerable to be outside (relatively!), but sleeping at night in a pool of sweat was unbearable!
Bless your soul. My Grandma lives in the Caribbean and has no AC. And she wonders why I don't sleep at her house when I visit Last time I slept on the the porch in one of those inflatable rafts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Are you excluding Texas? Here are the top manufacturing cities as of 2011.

http://manufacturersnews.com/news/ch...obsJan2012.pdf


City
1 TX Houston 235,038



Here it is by metro.

5. Houston - 230,200


I could post more but Dallas and Houston are two of the top manufacturing cities in the nation.
Don't want to nit pick but do you see anything screwy with these numbers???
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,052,687 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
Bless your soul. My Grandma lives in the Caribbean and has no AC. And she wonders why I don't sleep at her house when I visit Last time I slept on the the porch in one of those inflatable rafts


Don't want to nit pick but do you see anything screwy with these numbers???
I think they were from two different sources. I could be wrong. But the fact remains that Houston is one of the top manufacturing cities. Houston is not the same as the rest of the South to an extent in that it is not specifically a white collar town. It is also very blue collar if not alot more.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:41 PM
Status: "Enjoying the extended daylight." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
46,850 posts, read 37,012,001 times
Reputation: 28336
Quote:
Originally Posted by west336 View Post
You HAVE to understand that by adding new people comes new costs, and hence, new taxes and increased land values. You can't literally have your cake and eat it too. The pros of living in the South can and will become cons the more things even out. Simple economics....there is no such thing as arbitrage in a capitalist economy!

Also, "better weather" is seriously subjective here!
And with added population does come added risk, too. Cities that expand just need to prepare for it. Right now, southern cities (most of them, anyway) have an advantage and a lot going for them while the nation's economy is still down. When I mentioned better weather, I wasn't just talking about lots of sunshine, but also fewer snowouts at airports in said places during winter months. An airport shutdown can disrupt an area's economy. I didn't suggest I wanted northern states to suffer. Believe me, I'd like to see everyone's economy grow stronger once again that everybody benefits.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
 
Location: South Central Nebraska
350 posts, read 630,198 times
Reputation: 280
This is the kind of embarrassing behavior that leads jobs to go overseas or to move to lower cost states:

Caterpillar workers strike; rejected signing bonus - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/iam-workers-strike-caterpillars-joliet-plant-130216430--sector.html - broken link)

Joliet is a Chicago suburb but even in other parts of Illinois I believe there are a lot of unionized workers. The reality check is that we compete in a global economy, health care costs rise far faster than inflation, and workers everywhere are being asked to shoulder more of their health care costs. If I was Caterpillar I would promptly look at moving to another state. However there are non-unionized right-to-work states that are not Sunbelt states like Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakotas, Wyoming, or Iowa that Caterpillar could move to. That way Caterpillar could keep the Midwestern work ethic and higher education level typified by the Midwestern states. The problem in some areas is getting enough workers for a plant and convincing them to move to the Plains. However people are moving in droves to the Bakken Oil Field so I think if they bring the jobs to the Plains the applicants will come. Time to move out of the high cost Chicago area and union country!
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:02 PM
 
29,908 posts, read 27,355,630 times
Reputation: 18443
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCentralNEGuy View Post
This is the kind of embarrassing behavior that leads jobs to go overseas or to move to lower cost states:

Caterpillar workers strike; rejected signing bonus - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/iam-workers-strike-caterpillars-joliet-plant-130216430--sector.html - broken link)

Joliet is a Chicago suburb but even in other parts of Illinois I believe there are a lot of unionized workers. The reality check is that we compete in a global economy, health care costs rise far faster than inflation, and workers everywhere are being asked to shoulder more of their health care costs. If I was Caterpillar I would promptly look at moving to another state. However there are non-unionized right-to-work states that are not Sunbelt states like Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakotas, Wyoming, or Iowa that Caterpillar could move to. That way Caterpillar could keep the Midwestern work ethic and higher education level typified by the Midwestern states. The problem in some areas is getting enough workers for a plant and convincing them to move to the Plains. However people are moving in droves to the Bakken Oil Field so I think if they bring the jobs to the Plains the applicants will come. Time to move out of the high cost Chicago area and union country!
Caterpillar has been expanding pretty quickly these days, especially in the South. A new facility opened in NC last year that will employ 500, an existing facility in NC expanded last year that will create over 300 new jobs, a new plant employing 1,400 was announced for GA this year, and an expansion in SC announced this year will result in 80 new jobs (and Michelin's expansion in SC is partly because of Caterpillar's growth). Sounds like it's possible that these IL jobs could shift Southward as well.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:50 PM
 
Location: South Central Nebraska
350 posts, read 630,198 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Caterpillar has been expanding pretty quickly these days, especially in the South. A new facility opened in NC last year that will employ 500, an existing facility in NC expanded last year that will create over 300 new jobs, a new plant employing 1,400 was announced for GA this year, and an expansion in SC announced this year will result in 80 new jobs (and Michelin's expansion in SC is partly because of Caterpillar's growth). Sounds like it's possible that these IL jobs could shift Southward as well.
Forgive me for sounding insulting but do the workers in the South show up on time, are they well trained, and sufficiently able to do the job? I know the public school system in the Southeast is not very good but the community college and technical programs there sound very good. I had heard stories about a Caterpillar plant moving to Arkansas and then moving back to Illinois because they couldn't get workers to show up on time and because the workers lacked the skills that the Illinois workers possessed. Caterpillar deserves to expand in right-to-work states but I was also pointing out that there are right-to-work states further west although I don't think we throw the sheer $$ amount of incentives that states like NC, SC and GA do to attract jobs.
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