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Old 05-03-2012, 06:58 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,723,251 times
Reputation: 46025

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Birth rates have a LOT to do with international migration, and in the Sun Belt, it's almost entirely Hispanics/Latinos. Now that Mexican (Mexicans are by far the largest US immigrant group) immigration is reversing (more leaving the US than coming in) and the rest of them beginning to spread beyond the South, the Sun Belt is gradually losing this advantage as well.

ALL Sun Belt states are seeing rapid increases in senior population. I've seen the Carolinas brought up for manufacturing and they have exploding senior populations. And none of the actual jobs numbers reflect that those city you mentioned are leading manufacturing areas compared to the North. And the "Rustbelt" moniker is now outdated.

You do realize that the Great Lakes have direct access to the Atlantic, right, and that there are ports all through the area? This is not a competitive advantage for the Sun Belt.
Well, as long as you're willing to pay for an extra 1,500 mile slog through the St. Lawrence seaway. Or you can simply dock in Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Jacksonville, Charleston, et al, and put your containers on railways.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,397,568 times
Reputation: 2794
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCentralNEGuy View Post
This is the kind of embarrassing behavior that leads jobs to go overseas or to move to lower cost states:

Caterpillar workers strike; rejected signing bonus - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/iam-workers-strike-caterpillars-joliet-plant-130216430--sector.html - broken link)

Joliet is a Chicago suburb but even in other parts of Illinois I believe there are a lot of unionized workers. The reality check is that we compete in a global economy, health care costs rise far faster than inflation, and workers everywhere are being asked to shoulder more of their health care costs. If I was Caterpillar I would promptly look at moving to another state. However there are non-unionized right-to-work states that are not Sunbelt states like Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakotas, Wyoming, or Iowa that Caterpillar could move to. That way Caterpillar could keep the Midwestern work ethic and higher education level typified by the Midwestern states. The problem in some areas is getting enough workers for a plant and convincing them to move to the Plains. However people are moving in droves to the Bakken Oil Field so I think if they bring the jobs to the Plains the applicants will come. Time to move out of the high cost Chicago area and union country!
Now I am not a most pro-union guy, but I sometimes think management is greedy when you compare salaries and bonuses paid to upper management that don't get passed along to other workers. This was mentioned in the full length Tribune story which contains additional facts, and a different spin (and the Tribune is GOP, right leaning newspaper):
About 800 workers at a Caterpillar plant in Joliet went on strike early Tuesday, claiming the heavy-equipment manufacturer proposes to freeze wages, double health care premiums and eliminate pensions and seniority rights over a six-year contract. [...]they have demanded more concessions in return for creating and retaining jobs, and the lower pay scales have driven down wages at other companies as well.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:49 AM
 
Location: South Central Nebraska
350 posts, read 630,198 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
After reading any number of your posts, I've decided that what you actually know about the South or Southerners wouldn't fit on the head of a pin. I mean, where do you get your information from? Old reruns of Dukes Of Hazzard?

I moved here from Illinois and found that that all the stereotypes that lazy people indulge in are decidedly untrue. Major manufacturers have put plants all over the map in my own state and continue to expand their operations over the years, which tells me that they're decidedly happy about the quality of the labor they have.
I get my information from an isolated incident where Caterpillar had moved a plant to Arkansas and it had not worked out that I told Mutiny I apologized for and was wrong of me. As far as reading other posts I don't think I'm wrong in saying the South was hit hard by the recession and that it will take a while to bounce back (as will many other areas of the country). We are finally starting to see repatriation of jobs from overseas and companies rightfully prefer right-to-work states. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that agriculture is not as large an industry or employer in the Southeast as it is on the Plains which is why we weren't hit hard by the recession while you all were and that the job numbers particularly in rural counties in the South are very concerning. I cannot share in the Sunbelt enthusiasm until the job numbers return to the way they were pre-recession. I am cautioning people before leaping bindly and making sure they have a job in hand before moving to what they see as "low cost" housing. I am well aware that Birmingham is a large metro area with plenty of new shopping centers and housing developments (I have been there before) and some of them are quite nice!
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,331 posts, read 3,054,090 times
Reputation: 3925
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, as long as you're willing to pay for an extra 1,500 mile slog through the St. Lawrence seaway. Or you can simply dock in Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Jacksonville, Charleston, et al, and put your containers on railways.
Shipping via water is cheap. It costs less to transport a unit of cargo from Hong Kong to LA than to go from LA to Denver. Going down the St Lawrence is not going to add cost if your ship can fit through it. The main issue with the Great Lakes ports is that superfreighters are too big for the canals. That said, in the grand scheme of things proximity to ports is not that big of a driver for locating businesses.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: livin' the good life
2,148 posts, read 3,670,397 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
A younger workforce based on what, though? Hispanic immigrants? Youth just doesn't count as much for high-tech or manufacturing jobs that require advanced degrees. When it comes to education, the North leads by far. And many of the Sun Belt states have the fastest-growing senior populations.

And yes, the Sun Belt has been taking full use of the available methods of corporate extortion (incentives is a very nice way to put it). However, if the base cost of doing business is competitive in both areas (and it wasn't for a long time), there's going to have to be other fundamental reasons for a company to move operations in the future.
I question the accuracy of your statement...
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
GA, SC, NC all have lower median age population than OH, MI. For example OH has higher percentage of folks over 65 (14.1%) vs NAT AVE of 13.0% per lastest census, while SC at 13.7%, NC 12.9%, GA at 10.7%.

Last edited by Yac; 05-08-2012 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:15 PM
 
29,905 posts, read 27,355,630 times
Reputation: 18443
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Birth rates have a LOT to do with international migration, and in the Sun Belt, it's almost entirely Hispanics/Latinos. Now that Mexican (Mexicans are by far the largest US immigrant group) immigration is reversing (more leaving the US than coming in) and the rest of them beginning to spread beyond the South, the Sun Belt is gradually losing this advantage as well.
"Advantage" is quite subjective since we're not really talking about skilled, educated immigrants for the most part. At any rate, it's pretty clear that the Sunbelt states have the edge in domestic migration, even with the slowdown that's occurred due to the recession.

Quote:
ALL Sun Belt states are seeing rapid increases in senior population. I've seen the Carolinas brought up for manufacturing and they have exploding senior populations. And none of the actual jobs numbers reflect that those city you mentioned are leading manufacturing areas compared to the North. And the "Rustbelt" moniker is now outdated.
With the exception of Florida and probably Arizona, Sunbelt states are seeing rapid increases across the board due to higher migration rates. The problem with many Rustbelt metro areas is that they're experiencing major brain drain as the younger population flees, which is a major reason why the overall population skews older.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Tampa
3,981 posts, read 9,428,462 times
Reputation: 1171
for those interested, here are the latest stats on population.

prob not perfect, but gives you an idea.

Population Estimates - U.S. Census Bureau



and I think water is going to be the biggest determination of where people/businesses will relocate over the next 50 years or so.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 10,136,989 times
Reputation: 2384
Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalblue View Post
for those interested, here are the latest stats on population.

prob not perfect, but gives you an idea.

Population Estimates - U.S. Census Bureau



and I think water is going to be the biggest determination of where people/businesses will relocate over the next 50 years or so.
These figures don't look very different from what I already saw a month or so ago.....they also look like total historical estimates (estimates based on historical growth). We'll see I guess...
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:38 PM
 
5,858 posts, read 14,046,541 times
Reputation: 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy View Post
I question the accuracy of your statement...
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
GA, SC, NC all have lower median age population than OH, MI. For example OH has higher percentage of folks over 65 (14.1%) vs NAT AVE of 13.0% per lastest census, while SC at 13.7%, NC 12.9%, GA at 10.7%.
Statistically, you are talking apples and oranges. jbcmh81 is not talking about the whole population (i.e., median age), he is talking about a segment of the population (seniors).

Last edited by Yac; 05-08-2012 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,097 posts, read 13,483,466 times
Reputation: 5771
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy View Post
I question the accuracy of your statement...
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
GA, SC, NC all have lower median age population than OH, MI. For example OH has higher percentage of folks over 65 (14.1%) vs NAT AVE of 13.0% per lastest census, while SC at 13.7%, NC 12.9%, GA at 10.7%.
I said fastest growing, not largest. However, with rates the way they are, they likely will become the largest as well.

Last edited by Yac; 05-08-2012 at 06:43 AM..
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