U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-15-2012, 09:37 PM
 
6,418 posts, read 10,866,255 times
Reputation: 6687

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
I remember reading that article when it came out and it definitely proves the point. Im not searching the internet looking for it, but if you really want to know more go find it. The author may be a nut, but he was right about the sunbelt growth.

Florida, Texas, California, and Arizona cover most of the sunbelt growth. Ok, you have Atlanta, NC, and SC, but believe me there are plenty of immigrants in these places. Also, after immigrants the 2nd biggest group is probably retirees, and old people looking to live in a warm climate. They made their money after decades of hard work in areas of the country that have real economic activity. Selling them burgers is not a good way to have an economy.

So the sunbelt growth was from immigrants and retirees. The growth is exponentially decreasing and will soon start to decline since their are no jobs, and there is even going to be less if another downturn happens. Will another downturn happen? The Eurozone could collapse, the ME is extremely unstable in so many ways, the US and Iran might have war that could disrupt oil supplies, and the BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) have experienced decreased growth and high inflation. All over the world we are seeing increased nationalism and the extreme left and rights are growing. So I would say the sunbelt is pretty much screwed. Without government subsidizing fuel and roads, and without bubbles, there is nothing in the sunbelt.
lol, this post is so stuffed with bull that it's not worth a lengthy response.

Keep believing what you want to believe. We'll keep trucking along. With a username like "cry havoc," I guess I shouldn't presume you to be a rational or intelligent person.

Last edited by JMT; 06-18-2012 at 11:43 AM.. Reason: Removed inappropriate language
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-15-2012, 10:18 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,394,085 times
Reputation: 1768
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
lol, this post is so stuffed with bull that it's not worth a lengthy response.

Keep believing what you want to believe. We'll keep trucking along. With a username like "cry havoc," I guess I shouldn't presume you to be a rational or intelligent person.
What an intelligent response. I write something you dont agree with and you reply, "It is BS im not responding." Way to refute me. Now how I know how Galileo felt when he told them the Earth revolved around the sun and they just said, "No, you are wrong."

I can also tell you are an intelligent person nashvols. I mean your theory that usernames correlate to rationality and intelligence is brilliant. In fact now that I think of it I should presume that with a username like nashvols you must be the smartest person who ever lived. I should have known you were right as soon as I saw your username. If you said the Earth was flat I would be wrong by default due to our usernames, and even if I provided evidence of it I would stoll be wrong because, "it is full of BS and not worth a response by you."

Sorry to have taken up your time oh wise one.


Last edited by JMT; 06-18-2012 at 11:43 AM.. Reason: Removed inappropriate language (from nashvols)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2012, 10:17 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,807,465 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
What an intelligent response. I write something you dont agree with and you reply, "It is BS im not responding." Way to refute me. Now how I know how Galileo felt when he told them the Earth revolved around the sun and they just said, "No, you are wrong."

I can also tell you are an intelligent person nashvols. I mean your theory that usernames correlate to rationality and intelligence is brilliant. In fact now that I think of it I should presume that with a username like nashvols you must be the smartest person who ever lived. I should have known you were right as soon as I saw your username. If you said the Earth was flat I would be wrong by default due to our usernames, and even if I provided evidence of it I would stoll be wrong because, "it is full of BS and not worth a response by you."

Sorry to have taken up your time oh wise one.

cry_havoc, perhaps if you gave actual data to back up your claims that would help your case. As of yet, I haven't seen any. And, as someone who lives in two sunbelt states, I would be curious to see how that pans out. Clearly, Miami's growth is fueled by international immigration from primarily South America, the Caribbean and Europe. However, the growth in my other home in Raleigh is completely different. While immigrants and retirees make up a percentage of growth everywhere, it's been domestic professional migration that has fueled Raleigh's rapid growth. And, frankly, that migration is of any race.

While it's true that Hispanic and Asian growth in most communities has outgrown "white & black" growth by percentage rate, it's important to understand that massive increases in percentage don't always reflect massive absolute numbers of growth. This is due to the fact that many communities across the country had basically very low numbers of Hispanics and Asians in decades past.

Let's look at Wake County, NC as an example. it's Raleigh's County. I am only going to look at Hispanic and Asian %'s since they make up the lion's share of non-white/black population.
In 2000, Wake County was about 628,000. Of that population, 5.4% of it was Hispanic and about 3.4% of that Asian. So, in absolute numbers, Hispanics and Asians made up 8.8% of the population or about 55,264 of that total.
In 2010, Wake County grew to 901,000 people. Of that number, 9.8% were Hispanic and 5.4% were Asian. So, of that 901,000, 15.2% or 136, 952 were either Hispanic or Asian. So, between 2000 and 2010, the Hispanic and Asian population grew by 81,688. Quite impressive? Yes. However, the county itself grew by about 273,000. If we don't include any of the Hispanic or Asian growth in the last decade, Wake County still grew by more than 30% or more than triple the national growth rate. So, clearly, Hispanic and Asian immigration wasn't the main driver in that growth. Plus, of that Hispanic and Asian growth, it certainly wasn't even all immigrants. In fact, I dare say that the majority of it was probably natural growth through births in the county and domestic migration of Hispanics and Asians from elsewhere in the US. I don't have that data on that. However, I do have friends who are among these minority groups who had children during the previous decade and I do know US citizens who are of those minority groups who moved to Raleigh in the last decade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2012, 03:45 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,394,085 times
Reputation: 1768
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
cry_havoc, perhaps if you gave actual data to back up your claims that would help your case. As of yet, I haven't seen any. And, as someone who lives in two sunbelt states, I would be curious to see how that pans out. Clearly, Miami's growth is fueled by international immigration from primarily South America, the Caribbean and Europe. However, the growth in my other home in Raleigh is completely different. While immigrants and retirees make up a percentage of growth everywhere, it's been domestic professional migration that has fueled Raleigh's rapid growth. And, frankly, that migration is of any race.

While it's true that Hispanic and Asian growth in most communities has outgrown "white & black" growth by percentage rate, it's important to understand that massive increases in percentage don't always reflect massive absolute numbers of growth. This is due to the fact that many communities across the country had basically very low numbers of Hispanics and Asians in decades past.

Let's look at Wake County, NC as an example. it's Raleigh's County. I am only going to look at Hispanic and Asian %'s since they make up the lion's share of non-white/black population.
In 2000, Wake County was about 628,000. Of that population, 5.4% of it was Hispanic and about 3.4% of that Asian. So, in absolute numbers, Hispanics and Asians made up 8.8% of the population or about 55,264 of that total.
In 2010, Wake County grew to 901,000 people. Of that number, 9.8% were Hispanic and 5.4% were Asian. So, of that 901,000, 15.2% or 136, 952 were either Hispanic or Asian. So, between 2000 and 2010, the Hispanic and Asian population grew by 81,688. Quite impressive? Yes. However, the county itself grew by about 273,000. If we don't include any of the Hispanic or Asian growth in the last decade, Wake County still grew by more than 30% or more than triple the national growth rate. So, clearly, Hispanic and Asian immigration wasn't the main driver in that growth. Plus, of that Hispanic and Asian growth, it certainly wasn't even all immigrants. In fact, I dare say that the majority of it was probably natural growth through births in the county and domestic migration of Hispanics and Asians from elsewhere in the US. I don't have that data on that. However, I do have friends who are among these minority groups who had children during the previous decade and I do know US citizens who are of those minority groups who moved to Raleigh in the last decade.
I did use actually data. Also I didnt say it was the case for every area in the sunbelt. I agree with you that Raleigh, and NC, is an exception to the rule, although it has seen growth in its hispanic community. Unfortunately for the rest of the sunblet they dont have the type of economic activity, skilled, and educated population NC has.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2012, 03:52 PM
 
29,944 posts, read 27,386,421 times
Reputation: 18522
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
I did use actually data. Also I didnt say it was the case for every area in the sunbelt. I agree with you that Raleigh, and NC, is an exception to the rule, although it has seen growth in its hispanic community. Unfortunately for the rest of the sunblet they dont have the type of economic activity, skilled, and educated population NC has.
As far as large cities go, all of the high-growth, non-retirement havens in the South part of the Sunbelt are "exceptions"--namely Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, Austin, San Antonio, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, and Atlanta. Even several smaller areas are worth noting, like northwest Arkansas, Huntsville, Charleston, etc. Then you have more settled areas that have solid economies although they aren't really booming with average to a slightly above-average growth rates--New Orleans, Birmingham, Memphis, Jacksonville, Little Rock, Chattanooga, Mobile, Knoxville, Baton Rouge, Columbia, Greenville, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Jackson, etc. Orlando is an interesting case as it certainly has the retirees, immigrants, and tourists, but is also gaining a rising profile in other sectors like software development which is making it a true magnet for educated talent.

Economically speaking, the issue that a lot of the South is having isn't an influx of illegal immigrants and/or retirees--it's the generous use of incentives for non knowledge-based jobs that don't have much of a multiplier effect. But that's another subject for another day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
1,309 posts, read 2,354,028 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post

The sunbelt, including the southern parts, is the new rustbelt of the US. Like I said there are a few exceptions, and the growth is mostly from illegal immigrants who have lots of offspring.
The data do not seem support your claim above in any way. I'll use Austin as an example, since I currently live here. Looking at Travis County on the Forbes migration map from the 2010 census, you can see the enormous chunk of Austin's growth that has come from domestic migration, not from 'illegal immigrants who have lots of offspring'. Also Austin has created lots of middle-class jobs as well as the service sector/min. wage jobs, which is also counter indicative to your claim. A census brief also shows that Austin is actually becoming 'whiter'....again hurting your 'argument'. This pattern is not confined to Austin either, you'll see something similar in other Texas metros. Of course there has also been much in-migration from Mexicans, much of it illegal, but that's not really what you're saying. Links are below.

American Migration [Interactive Map] - Forbes

A Recipe for Middle-Class Jobs - WSJ.com

www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-05.pdf
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2012, 05:15 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,394,085 times
Reputation: 1768
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnLion512 View Post
The data do not seem support your claim above in any way. I'll use Austin as an example, since I currently live here. Looking at Travis County on the Forbes migration map from the 2010 census, you can see the enormous chunk of Austin's growth that has come from domestic migration, not from 'illegal immigrants who have lots of offspring'. Also Austin has created lots of middle-class jobs as well as the service sector/min. wage jobs, which is also counter indicative to your claim. A census brief also shows that Austin is actually becoming 'whiter'....again hurting your 'argument'. This pattern is not confined to Austin either, you'll see something similar in other Texas metros. Of course there has also been much in-migration from Mexicans, much of it illegal, but that's not really what you're saying. Links are below.

American Migration [Interactive Map] - Forbes

A Recipe for Middle-Class Jobs - WSJ.com

www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-05.pdf
Ive lived in Austin. Austin is another exception. The rest of texas on the other hand...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2012, 06:25 PM
 
29,944 posts, read 27,386,421 times
Reputation: 18522
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Ive lived in Austin. Austin is another exception. The rest of texas on the other hand...
Not really. Of course Houston and DFW are getting immigrants, but it's ludicrous to say that their economies are built on illegal immigration. Not too sure what the deal is in San Antonio though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Up North
3,406 posts, read 7,561,432 times
Reputation: 3053
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Despite gentrification in urban cities, the migration downwards is soaring and isn't expected to end any time soon. Construction and real estate is going to continue although there were setbacks in those sectors due to the recession. Not only are blacks and hispanics leaving the NE as the years go by, whites are leaving in huge numbers as well.



As much as we don't like it, the housing boom is coming back.


The sunbelt boom is not going to end probably until the next 20 years.

This sentence to me seems lost or out of place. What does this have anything to do with the topic? Travel to Florida and you'll see the wealthiest people down there are Cuban doctors, lawyers, and Politicans and they are reconstructing tired tourist cities into places with vibrant Latin culture and strong economies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2012, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Katy-zuela
4,852 posts, read 8,995,231 times
Reputation: 2364
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnLion512 View Post
'illegal immigrants who have lots of offspring'.
That meme sounds too close to Queen Cadillac and her welfare babies. Anybody want to guess what race she was? (Must be the 2010 update of the meme.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top