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Old 03-09-2013, 12:31 PM
 
4 posts, read 5,820 times
Reputation: 16

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
Yes, it must have been Monty Python reviewing his research before he put it on his website. That is the only way I could see such inaccurate information getting there.

The comment, by me, questioning his sloppy research was dead on.

Your comment was pedantic.

If you've read the book then you should know the daunting effort Loewen has undertaken and rather than passing judgment you could email the author.

If you haven't read the book, passing such a judgment reveals more about you than the author.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,687 posts, read 33,690,741 times
Reputation: 51892
And your media doesn't tell you about this either:

Black mobs now beating Jews in New York

If Chaim Amalek had his way, no one would know that mobs of black people are attacking and beating and robbing Jews in the New York area. Or that they shout anti-Semitic epithets. Or that they target Jews because “they don’t fight back.”

Black mobs now beating Jews in New York

I was actually looking for another story from decades ago where whites used to taget blacks in one particular NYC neighborhood to show you the issue was not just in the South and Midwest when I came upon this story that never made the national news last year.

The one I was originally thinking of was Howard Beach.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 17,940,505 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatherdust View Post
Your comment was pedantic.

If you've read the book then you should know the daunting effort Loewen has undertaken and rather than passing judgment you could email the author.

If you haven't read the book, passing such a judgment reveals more about you than the author.
I went to his website, read what he put on his website, what he put on his website was completely wrong, I pointed out that what he put on his website was completely wrong.

If pointing out when someone is completely wrong is now called passing judgement, especially when they put these things out there to drive book sales, well then I guess I am passing judgement.

I also will not waste my time reading a book when a quick glance at his website shows me the completely untrue information posted there, it took me all of 15-30 SECONDS to find was untrue. Why would I bother reading his book if one of the first things I picked up on was so easily shown to be false?

Daunting effort? Me thinks not.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:50 PM
 
4 posts, read 5,820 times
Reputation: 16
I can't tell whether you're actively denying the white racism that is part of Winter Haven's legacy or you're simply proud to strut your idiocy. Only a fool would respond as you do.

Either way it doesn't take much beyond your requisite 15 seconds to read and master the 129 words in the entry on Winter Haven at Loewen's site. That entry was provided by an anonymous reader and it relayed what a relative remembered about Winter Haven in the 1930s. That's all.

Had you taken another second or two you would have learned that the site doesn't confirm Winter Haven as a sundown town. A few more of your total 30 second allotment would have told you that Loewen is collecting information from readers in an effort to reconstruct a history of white racism that is curiously absent from most historical accounts.

I suspect if you had emailed your objections to Loewen he would have sensibly ignored them since you don't refute anything. Can you refute the entry?

Try this: A cursory google search finds that in 1950 nearly 18 percent of Winter Haven's population was nonwhite. That increased to 23 percent in the 1960 census. In 2010, Blacks constituted 27 percent of the population. Does that mean Winter Haven has a clean racial history? What other bits I learned makes me think there's been a history of segregation within Winter Haven as well as between it and neighboring towns. And given the history of racism and the Klan in Florida I don't think I would throw around words like malign.

That you took so much umbrage at the merest suggestion about Winter Haven reminds me of the scene in Marco William's Banished. Phil Bettis was a local white title attorney who should have been familiar with the violent expulsion of the black population from Forsyth County Georgia in 1912. Bettis had co-chaired a bi-racial commission on racism in the county and had been title attorney on properties with missing titles and deeds of sales - properties that had been black-owned but were stolen by whites. When a reporter refers to the events in Forsyth County as racial cleansing Bettis takes offenses. A lot of people in the U.S. live in a fabricated reality where the past wasn't so bad and the present is so much better.

The next thing you're gonna say is that you're color-blind.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 17,940,505 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatherdust View Post
I can't tell whether you're actively denying the white racism that is part of Winter Haven's legacy or you're simply proud to strut your idiocy. Only a fool would respond as you do.

Either way it doesn't take much beyond your requisite 15 seconds to read and master the 129 words in the entry on Winter Haven at Loewen's site. That entry was provided by an anonymous reader and it relayed what a relative remembered about Winter Haven in the 1930s. That's all.

Had you taken another second or two you would have learned that the site doesn't confirm Winter Haven as a sundown town. A few more of your total 30 second allotment would have told you that Loewen is collecting information from readers in an effort to reconstruct a history of white racism that is curiously absent from most historical accounts.

I suspect if you had emailed your objections to Loewen he would have sensibly ignored them since you don't refute anything. Can you refute the entry?

Try this: A cursory google search finds that in 1950 nearly 18 percent of Winter Haven's population was nonwhite. That increased to 23 percent in the 1960 census. In 2010, Blacks constituted 27 percent of the population. Does that mean Winter Haven has a clean racial history? What other bits I learned makes me think there's been a history of segregation within Winter Haven as well as between it and neighboring towns. And given the history of racism and the Klan in Florida I don't think I would throw around words like malign.

That you took so much umbrage at the merest suggestion about Winter Haven reminds me of the scene in Marco William's Banished. Phil Bettis was a local white title attorney who should have been familiar with the violent expulsion of the black population from Forsyth County Georgia in 1912. Bettis had co-chaired a bi-racial commission on racism in the county and had been title attorney on properties with missing titles and deeds of sales - properties that had been black-owned but were stolen by whites. When a reporter refers to the events in Forsyth County as racial cleansing Bettis takes offenses. A lot of people in the U.S. live in a fabricated reality where the past wasn't so bad and the present is so much better.

The next thing you're gonna say is that you're color-blind.
I guess you failed to read what I said,
Quote:
It was a phenomenon back in the early 1900's up through the 60's and I am sure that some still exist , of course without the signage, but I have a problem with the author having a website listing some towns as possible sundown towns without really researching.
He has Winter Haven, FL on his list and the town is almost 30% black. If someone is going to malign a town like that you would think they would do some research first.
No where, anywhere, did I ever claim that there was never any racism in Winter Haven. My problem was that a person writing a book on the subject, who was thereby proclaiming himself to be an expert on the subject, had on his website cities that in no way currently fit the definition of a sundown town. By letting anyone put the information on it reflects on him since it is his website.

I see it is still on the site and to get to that page you need to go to "Sundown Towns: A Hidden Dimension of American Racism by James W. Loewen", in the part of the page titled "Sundown Towns in the United States" you would then click on "Search the Sundown Towns Database", which then takes you to a map you can click on titled "Sundown Towns in the United States", which takes you to a page that finally tells you "Possible Sundown Towns in FL" and you can click on Winterhaven on which page it says "Still Sundown Town?" "Don't Know". It seems after all this time they are still fine with giving the impression that Winterhaven is possibly a sundown town.

Let me ask you this, how many times have you been to Winterhaven? How much first hand knowledge do you have? I am guessing none.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:06 AM
 
14,111 posts, read 22,759,137 times
Reputation: 4208
Vidor Texas from what I've always heard was a legit Sundown town.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:21 AM
 
14,111 posts, read 22,759,137 times
Reputation: 4208
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
And your media doesn't tell you about this either:

Black mobs now beating Jews in New York

If Chaim Amalek had his way, no one would know that mobs of black people are attacking and beating and robbing Jews in the New York area. Or that they shout anti-Semitic epithets. Or that they target Jews because “they don’t fight back.”

Black mobs now beating Jews in New York

I was actually looking for another story from decades ago where whites used to taget blacks in one particular NYC neighborhood to show you the issue was not just in the South and Midwest when I came upon this story that never made the national news last year.

The one I was originally thinking of was Howard Beach.
At least Blacks are getting arrested for it. For a long period of time, Whites weren't punished for these same acts. No matter the lack of media attention, Blacks will never get the same leeway to commit these acts against Whites, the same way Whites used to against Blacks. There's probably hundreds of mini-riots against Blacks by Whites in sundown towns, that forced Blacks to leave. As was said in one of the links posted on this thread: "During this era, indulged in little race riots, that until now, have been lost to history". Pretty much sums it up, not much history is taught in schools(well it was never taught to me) about this phenomenon.There are examples of Whites actually GOING TO predominantly Black towns and rioting and killing Blacks. Like Rosewood and Florida and the Greenwood Tulsa OK riots: "The official count of the dead by the Oklahoma Department of Vital Statistics was 39, but other estimates of black fatalities have been up to about 300."

"The Tulsa race riot of 1921 was rarely mentioned in history books, classrooms or even in private. Blacks and whites alike grew into middle age unaware of what had taken place"

Last edited by polo89; 04-06-2013 at 02:32 AM..
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