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Old 11-29-2016, 06:36 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,130 posts, read 9,899,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Lake Erie is a big "obstacle". Do I consider Ohio "right next" to Canada? Not really. Even on a big ship it's quite a venture to get to the other side of Lake Erie.

Now Detroit on the other hand is a quick bridge or tunnel ride over to Windsor.
I know what you mean. I don't think of Ohio bordering Canada the same way say Montana or Maine does.

But in any case, the OP is still right, the North is only one state wide at Ohio. And at the western part of Pennsylvania as well.
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Old 12-03-2016, 10:52 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,866,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
You cannot help but notice this when you look at the map. In hindsight when you look at confederate war stratagies during the civil war it may have made more sense to concentrate confederate power in Kentucky and invade Ohio instead of wasting thier time on the invasion of Pennsylvania. Obviously enought forces would have had to be left in the east to defend Virginia, but had Lee and a large part of his force been sent west they could have made it deep into Ohio. The ultimate nightmare for the north would have been a large confederate army reaching the shores of Lake erie severing the north in two. This would have seperated the powerful northeast from the midwestern food producing states of Ind, Ill, Mi, Wi, Ia and Mn. The north would have been forced to negotiate for peace, or at the very least midwest states may have made a seperate peace with the confederacy. The end result would have been the same, confederate victory.
The South was largely on the defense on the western front during the Civil War because of the large Midwestern forces, including from Ohio.

The South did move Longstreet's corps to the West and almost as a result won a decisive victory at Chickamauga. However, Lee couldn't part for those troops for long, especially once Union commanders realized that Longstreet was in the West.

Losing Richmond and Virginia would have been more crippling for the Confederacy than a Confederate army rampaging in Ohio, especially as the Union could have easily cut the supply lines of that Confederate army operating in Ohio and eventually won a decisive victory.

Richmond was a center for Confederate arms production in addition to being the Confederate capital.

Also, consider that the Ohio River was a much more substantial barrier than the Potomac. Until after the Civil War, I don't think there was even a major bridge across the Ohio River between Kentucky and Ohio. The Union had a major river navy that likely also would have doomed any Confederate invasion across the Ohio River. That river navy played decisive roles in Union victories at Shiloh and Vicksburg, partially by ferrying troops.

Last edited by WRnative; 12-03-2016 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:06 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,866,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentmassey View Post
Sixty percent of white people in Ohio has a Southern Ancestry, that why it seems like that. The same has Michgan
I doubt this very much, especially considering the large amount of European immigration to both Ohio and Michigan. Proof?
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Old 12-03-2016, 06:28 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,720,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Lake Erie is a big "obstacle". Do I consider Ohio "right next" to Canada? Not really. Even on a big ship it's quite a venture to get to the other side of Lake Erie.
Indeed. Few may have the fortune to survive that treacherous journey. The most intrepid of men are a-feared to battle the high seas of the Erie, that water which is jealous of men's lives and spares few who, whether foolhardy or desperate, brave the coastal currents, their eerie coves and blasted dunes littered with the remains of ill-fated ships lost long ago on ill-advised expeditions. And those who do survive the insatiable maw of the Erie's depths? Only the wilds of that mysterious and beast-populated waste, Canada, know their fate. For none have returned. Lo, young adventurer, look southward to gentler pastures. Riches are not of worth to the dead man. The bony hand of the corpse not even a penny can spend.
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Old 12-03-2016, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
1,500 posts, read 1,350,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Lake Erie is a big "obstacle". Do I consider Ohio "right next" to Canada? Not really. Even on a big ship it's quite a venture to get to the other side of Lake Erie.

Now Detroit on the other hand is a quick bridge or tunnel ride over to Windsor.
Pelee island and Middle Island are separated from the Ohio islands by only a few kilometres at most, they are in plain view of eachother.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:25 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,866,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Indeed. Few may have the fortune to survive that treacherous journey. The most intrepid of men are a-feared to battle the high seas of the Erie, that water which is jealous of men's lives and spares few who, whether foolhardy or desperate, brave the coastal currents, their eerie coves and blasted dunes littered with the remains of ill-fated ships lost long ago on ill-advised expeditions. And those who do survive the insatiable maw of the Erie's depths? Only the wilds of that mysterious and beast-populated waste, Canada, know their fate. For none have returned. Lo, young adventurer, look southward to gentler pastures. Riches are not of worth to the dead man. The bony hand of the corpse not even a penny can spend.
I think cBach's point is that there are no bridges across Lake Erie and only one ferry in western Ohio connecting the various islands. The ferry only operates in the summer, and it would take an hour to get from Port Clinton to Canada's Pelee Island on a fast ferry.

https://jet-express.com/excursion/pe...asting-dinner/

It takes four hours of driving to get to Canada from Cleveland.

Lake Erie can be very rough, and in some weather, you don't want to be on it in a small boat, let alone a fire-prone ship of 19th century design.

Lake Erie's bottom has thousands of wrecks, mostly from the 19th century. Most persons today aren't even aware of some of the various catastrophes on the lake.

1850 shipwreck memorialized at Lakefront Park in Willowick

<<According to Wachter, Lake Erie has had more known shipwrecks per square foot than any other body of water (with the possible exception of the English Channel.)

There are 1,750 documented wrecks in Lake Erie. Wachter knows of at least 300 more and estimates that there are between 2,200 and 2,500 wrecks total.>>

7 Things I Learned About Lake Erie Shipwrecks - Mentor, OH Patch

<<Don't be afraid of Lake Erie but keep a healthy dose of respect in mind when going out. The problem you'll encounter when sailing the lake is not wave hieght but period. Since the lake is shallow you can easily have an 8 foot wave with a 4 second period. >>

Scared of Lake Erie - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

And, of course, there is very little boating activity in the winter. Large commercial freighters even halt traffic when the lake freezes. The ferries always close down.

https://www.wired.com/2015/12/dave-s...-of-lake-erie/

Last edited by WRnative; 12-04-2016 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:22 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,720,777 times
Reputation: 30796
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
I think cBach's point is that there are no bridges across Lake Erie and only one ferry in western Ohio connecting the various islands. The ferry only operates in the summer, and it would take an hour to get from Port Clinton to Canada's Pelee Island on a fast ferry.

https://jet-express.com/excursion/pe...asting-dinner/

It takes four hours of driving to get to Canada from Cleveland.

Lake Erie can be very rough, and in some weather, you don't want to be on it in a small boat, let alone a fire-prone ship of 19th century design.

Lake Erie's bottom has thousands of wrecks, mostly from the 19th century. Most persons today aren't even aware of some of the various catastrophes on the lake.

1850 shipwreck memorialized at Lakefront Park in Willowick

<<According to Wachter, Lake Erie has had more known shipwrecks per square foot than any other body of water (with the possible exception of the English Channel.)

There are 1,750 documented wrecks in Lake Erie. Wachter knows of at least 300 more and estimates that there are between 2,200 and 2,500 wrecks total.>>

7 Things I Learned About Lake Erie Shipwrecks - Mentor, OH Patch

<<Don't be afraid of Lake Erie but keep a healthy dose of respect in mind when going out. The problem you'll encounter when sailing the lake is not wave hieght but period. Since the lake is shallow you can easily have an 8 foot wave with a 4 second period. >>

Scared of Lake Erie - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

And, of course, there is very little boating activity in the winter. Large commercial freighters even halt traffic when the lake freezes. The ferries always close down.

https://www.wired.com/2015/12/dave-s...-of-lake-erie/
I know, I was under the influence of my post dinner Madeira, and having topped my pipe with a pinch of shag, I felt compelled to expound with melodrama and nostlagia for my days on the high seas.

I have also been reading a lot of early 19th century adventure and exploration literature featuring excessively florid prose. It is worse than legal marijuana in terms of effects on the brain. Lasts longer, too.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
1,500 posts, read 1,350,579 times
Reputation: 1723
You can drive from Windsor to Toledo in less than an hour.
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