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Old 02-13-2011, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,740,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
Speaking historically this is not really true. Up through the 1850's northern west Virginia was fairly Southern with a slave market in Wheeling. Wheeling mobs broke up attempts to promote the Republican party, the Wheeling newspapers were very much anti-Abolitionist until Ohio Republican Archibald Campbell bought the Intelligencer in 1856. Francis Trollope visiting Wheeling in the 1820's noted "all that sedulous attention which in this country distinguishes a slave state." When the war came the southern elements in northern WV were expunged, many left to join the Confederate forces, some relocated behind Confederate lines, others were forcibly relocated or sent to prison camps from which many did not return. Harrison & Marion counties were stongholds of rebel guerrillas through 1865. The B&O railroad also had an impact in bringing northerners into the area. By 1860 2 of 3 heads of households in Wheeling were not native Virginians, and in Grafton 43% were not native Virginians. All this had the effect of eradicating much of the southern elements from northern WV.
True this. However, as I've stated so often, culture from one area can dominate another but that alone does not decide geographical position.

An example is Florida. Florida is heavily populated with northerners and Cubans. Despite that Florida is not Cuban nor is it northern. It is still solidly in the south, it simply has a different culture.

North-western Virginia (now WV) was a slave state and had a southern culture. But even according the MD line it's geographical position is also in the north. Bear in mind that the Mason-Dixon is measured by the continent as a whole rather than just the US. Divide the US proper in half, and WV is half northern by location.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:30 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,774,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Places that have never been part of the South

- Anywhere in Kansas
- Anywhere in Ohio
- Anywhere in Pennsylvania
- Extreme northern Kentucky
- Northern and central Missouri
- Northern West Virginia
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:25 AM
 
49 posts, read 51,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Ever realised how the 'north' is only one state wide at Ohio? In other words, the only thing separating Canada from the south is that big puddle and Ohio, and of course half of Lake Erie is technically in Canada.

Is anyone else kind of surprised how geographically far north the South is supposed to go? I mean Pennsylvania still seems firmly in the 'North', and it borders the Mason-Dixon line! By the definition of the 'technical South', East Liverpool is at the same latitude as New York City!
Most people that lived in Ohio have southern root, that is why.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:26 AM
 
49 posts, read 51,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observation View Post
Ohio to me has always seemed like the most southern, northern state.
Sixty percent of white people in Ohio has a Southern Ancestry, that why it seems like that. The same has Michgan
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,091 posts, read 3,445,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I had to laugh! Outside of Chicago! There is a saying that people in Chicago think everything south of I-80 is southern Illiniois!
It pretty much is.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:33 AM
 
92 posts, read 154,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
I've been analyzing this for years. As a bit a of a geographer I'd say that the north is unfairly small as defined by the MD line and Ohio river. It's even smaller when people say that southern Ohio, Illinois, Indiana and Missouri are all in the south.

What a lot of people cannot grasp is that culture alone does not dictate North/south. You must take climate, geographic location, flora and fauna into account as well. Example; Maryland, northern most Virginia, Delaware and the northern half of WV are not in the south by location, climate or plant life and in many cases not even by culture. Yet the imaginary MD line is still the deciding factor for many despite it's inaccuracy.

Drawing a line from the southern border of Delaware would be far more accurate.

A major hypocrisy that always irks me is when people claim northern WV, Maryland and Delaware as southern even though they are clearly located northwards. And then they will say that southern Illinois is southern because it reaches into the south. Well WV, Maryland and Delaware reach into the north so why doesn't that make them northern by the same logic? This can also apply to overall culture. Southern Illinois is quite southern, northern WV, MD and DE are quite northern.

An interesting bit about the southern reaches of Ontario (as was mentioned by an earlier poster) is that it once belonged to New York, and before that Massachusetts. If we had not lost claim to it there would likely be a 51st state where southern Ontario is. Honestly the map would make more sense that way, what with the Mason-Dixon weighing on people's minds. But as it stands that portion of the north is defined badly by borders.

Another note about culture is just because one place is like another doesn't make those places part of the same region. Culture reaches beyond borders and cannot alone define them.

And for the folks saying it's stupid to debate these things or that people in real life don't think about regionalism; you are wrong. Just because YOU don't think about it and YOU have no interest doesn't make your opinion the be all end all.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am so sick and tired of when you go into any thread about the south or southern cities, and florida is listed, someone always comes in to say "florida isn't a southern state". every time i'm like, uhh it's IN the south isn't it? "it's not culturally southern, so it's not the south". I don't understand how whenever you ask a question about states/cities in the south people think you mean culturally southern instead of geographically... i've never seen people talk about a state not being apart of a region because it's culturally different until i came on the forums here. everytime i talk or ask about a region i'm thinking about geography...not freaking culture.

but i always think anyway that the culture being different or changing doesn't make a state not apart of a region. everytime i see a statement like that from someone up north (it seems to be people from there who say it most) i think "well are country/rural areas in the north not apart of your region b/c they're not culturally northeastern?" if you go by mess like that to take states "out" of one region then why not do that for all of them...
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,740,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shani NC View Post
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am so sick and tired of when you go into any thread about the south or southern cities, and florida is listed, someone always comes in to say "florida isn't a southern state". every time i'm like, uhh it's IN the south isn't it? "it's not culturally southern, so it's not the south". I don't understand how whenever you ask a question about states/cities in the south people think you mean culturally southern instead of geographically... i've never seen people talk about a state not being apart of a region because it's culturally different until i came on the forums here. everytime i talk or ask about a region i'm thinking about geography...not freaking culture.
I fully agree.

For example my argument with considering Maryland northern (other threads) is based off of climate and true location. Culture takes a back seat. On the flip side I believe by climate and location that southern Missouri/Illinois are in the south.

Florida is most certainly in the south. It's further south than the rest of it actually. XD

People hardly ever consider the climates or pure geographical locals. Sometimes they can't see past government borders.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:38 AM
 
6,419 posts, read 10,869,759 times
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f3/Kudzu.PNG/800px-Kudzu.PNG (broken link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudzu_in_the_United_States

The South, as defined by where Kudzu is prevalent.

Oddly enough, there seems to be a small spot around Portland, OR, too.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:28 PM
 
92 posts, read 154,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
Kudzu in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The South, as defined by where Kudzu is prevalent.

Oddly enough, there seems to be a small spot around Portland, OR, too.
they should have left that mess in japan. too much work trying to get rid of all that stuff for good if it's on your land (though i didn't do any of the work of getting rid of it, my parents did ).
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:41 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,523 posts, read 17,750,904 times
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There is a large group of Ohioans that have no roots in the South unless you consider southern Germany.
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