The 'North' is one state wide at Ohio! (rating, areas)
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And I was kidding around anyway. Could've been worse - I could've repeated the joke about Pennsylvania basically being Pittsburgh on one end, Philly on the other, and Alabama in between.
Either or, they're both ignorant assessments. Rural central Pennsylvania certainly isn't the most wealthy, connected or enlightened place in the United States, but it's nowhere near as poor, isolated or oblivious as rural eastern Kentucky is, regardless of a common mountain range passing through both.
As for James Carville's "Philadelphia/Pittsburgh/Alabama" paradigm, he was analyzing voting patterns, not cultural patterns. Central Pennsylvania is politically conservative, standing in stark contrast to moderate western Pennsylvania and liberal eastern Pennsylvania. It doesn't mean they serve sweet tea or grits there.
In 1862 and 1863 it was possible, If a mediocre commander like Braxton Bragg was able to push as far north as perryville Ky in 1862 imagine what a great commander like Lee could have done, especially with the resources he could have brought from the east. Im not saying it would have been a sure thing, but the odds would be better there than they were in a much more defendable pennsylvania. You point out Morgans raid, and his sucess shows how little defenses there were in the lower midwest. He was able to ride acrost Indiana and Ohio before he was defeated. I wonder how quickly the North could have transfered its troops west as well, and could the south have moved troops west in secret??? That would have been the key, had the north been given time to react and move troops as well Gettysburg would have been fought 500 miles west, but we be calling it Dayton or Columbus instead. Interesting to think about anyway.
The problem with your scenario is that if the South pushed all the way up, the North would mobilise a "real" army sooner. Remember, in places like New York City the people were reluctant and lazy to mobilise because the general opinion at the time was "the South is too weak to push this far anyway". However, if the South managed to do some serious damage to the Northern cities such as cutting food from the midwest the public opinion would shift. If the Northern population centers have gotten serious, the Union could've fielded an army the size of the entire free population of the South.
A great film about the general sentiment during the civil war in NYC would be the Gangs of New York.
people in Minnesota have strong accents too, but are obviously not southern! LOL
WV is actually spit down the middle when it comes to N. vs. S.
plus I don't have an accent and I have lived here my whole life
The only strong southern accents I hear in West Virginia come from areas along the Kentucky and Virginia borders. It seems like when the national media comes to West Virginia, people from those areas are the ones interviewed.
There are plenty of "rural" accents in the state, but rural does not mean southern. Actually it's more of a blended accent with southern and northern tendencies with an Appalachian influence.
Back to the OP, the northern panhandle of West Virginia borders on East Liverpool, OH, so I know exactly where you are talking about. Does it become southern across the river in Chester, WV..NO! Also that part of WV is further north than most of New Jersey!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallydude02
The only strong southern accents I hear in West Virginia come from areas along the Kentucky and Virginia borders. It seems like when the national media comes to West Virginia, people from those areas are the ones interviewed.
There are plenty of "rural" accents in the state, but rural does not mean southern. Actually it's more of a blended accent with southern and northern tendencies with an Appalachian influence.
Back to the OP, the northern panhandle of West Virginia borders on East Liverpool, OH, so I know exactly where you are talking about. Does it become southern across the river in Chester, WV..NO! Also that part of WV is further north than most of New Jersey!
Well I don't know the specifics, but every person from WV on TV or the internet I've heard has had a very strong stereotypical 'southern' accent (maybe they're selective?) more so than any other state. They even interviewed some 'hicks' in far southern Ohio and they sounded as strong as any southerner I've ever heard!
Well I don't know the specifics, but every person from WV on TV or the internet I've heard has had a very strong stereotypical 'southern' accent (maybe they're selective?) more so than any other state. They even interviewed some 'hicks' in far southern Ohio and they sounded as strong as any southerner I've ever heard!
It is funny you say that because I think the media looks for that!
Back to the OP, West Virginia is in the northern half of the East Coast so I think it is safe to say that Ohio isn't the one state away from Canada
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I've been analyzing this for years. As a bit a of a geographer I'd say that the north is unfairly small as defined by the MD line and Ohio river. It's even smaller when people say that southern Ohio, Illinois, Indiana and Missouri are all in the south.
What a lot of people cannot grasp is that culture alone does not dictate North/south. You must take climate, geographic location, flora and fauna into account as well. Example; Maryland, northern most Virginia, Delaware and the northern half of WV are not in the south by location, climate or plant life and in many cases not even by culture. Yet the imaginary MD line is still the deciding factor for many despite it's inaccuracy.
Drawing a line from the southern border of Delaware would be far more accurate.
A major hypocrisy that always irks me is when people claim northern WV, Maryland and Delaware as southern even though they are clearly located northwards. And then they will say that southern Illinois is southern because it reaches into the south. Well WV, Maryland and Delaware reach into the north so why doesn't that make them northern by the same logic? This can also apply to overall culture. Southern Illinois is quite southern, northern WV, MD and DE are quite northern.
An interesting bit about the southern reaches of Ontario (as was mentioned by an earlier poster) is that it once belonged to New York, and before that Massachusetts. If we had not lost claim to it there would likely be a 51st state where southern Ontario is. Honestly the map would make more sense that way, what with the Mason-Dixon weighing on people's minds. But as it stands that portion of the north is defined badly by borders.
Another note about culture is just because one place is like another doesn't make those places part of the same region. Culture reaches beyond borders and cannot alone define them.
And for the folks saying it's stupid to debate these things or that people in real life don't think about regionalism; you are wrong. Just because YOU don't think about it and YOU have no interest doesn't make your opinion the be all end all.
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