What Would It Take for Outright Civil Unrest/Revolution in the US? (unemployment, universities)

[davidals]

The 25% unemployment rates during the height of the Great Depression might have been as close as we've come - the Civil War was a fresher memory at that point in history, and even with that acknowledged, the Depression was so extreme and protracted that fringe political philosophies from Communism to Fascism were seriously considered by Americans (albeit not in massive numbers) who would never have considered them before, and would probably not want to admit it afterwards.

Given the overall level of irritability and impatience in the general public in this era, I'd say take this recession, double its' severity, and prolong it for 5-10 years, and this country would - at very least - look like 1968 (riots in more than 100 cities) + 1930 (breadlines, Hoovervilles).

All you'd need to have to take it into levels or serious collapse would be (a) inept, or (b) malevolent, opportunistic leaders.

A great case study: Argentina during the 20th century. In 1900, Argentina and the U.S. were the two great American potential rivals - both were among the 10 wealthiest nations in the world, rapid growth, both countries were on fire, attracting immigrants, you name it.

The divergence between the two countries began pretty much with the start of the Great Depression: Argentina's response was absolute hands-off, non-intervention in an economic situation (essentially, let the market fix itself), and a retreat into very intense isolationism and nationalism. I think there was generally a period of political swings left to right, which at both ends were guided more by cliques and devotion to canned political ideologies than any actual sense of what was happening to the country, beyond some lip service populism; the middle class steadily shrank in size. This led straight into to Peronism, which led to periodic military takeovers, climaxing in the Dirty War of the late 70s/early 80s. Given the economic collapse of 1999-2002 down there, I don't know if the consequences of decisions taken around 1930 have still completely shaken out.

Granted, there are important constitutional differences between Argentina and the U.S., but if you want a great glimpse at how to **** up a fairly developed, prosperous nation in a way that will take a solid century to crawl out from under, Argentina would be a great cautionary tale.

[Observation]

The problem with Americans ever uniting together to solve there problems is race.
In the past 200 years all revolutions and uprisings in the US have been a matter of race.

Many Blacks still see Whites as the enemy and vice versa.

Blacks blame the entire White race for there problems that are really a result of the ruling class which constitutes less than 1% of the White race, and Whites don't trust Blacks because of crime rates which are a product of this oppression.

In reality this group (The top 10% richest with the top 1% being the real movers an shakers) has been the only group that ever oppressed Blacks on a large scale going back to slavery times when they were the ones that owned slaves. Owning a slave was like owning a Bentley, Something impossible for anyone who doesn't come from immense generational wealth.

This ruling class has not only oppressed anyone and everyone who is part of the have nots for the past 20 years, they constantly strive to make poor whites hate poor blacks and vice versa to eliminated either groups chances of coming together for positive change.

The sad part is no one on either side seems to realize that for the past 20 years they have both been lied to and oppressed non stop by the richest of the rich which have people in it that represent both groups.

The only way for any sort of unrest or revolution to happen that will in any shape or form have any sort of positive outcome is for it to be a multi-racial coming together, with strong leaders that are both Black, White, & Hispanic, telling all the people who are not part of the richest 10% to come together and uprise against the system and it's movers and shakers.

This would be the first revolution of it's kind in US history and I do not see it happening ever because there is too much racism and hate between the 2 groups which has undoubtedly been orchestrated by the top 1% for the past 400 hundred years. Divide and conquer

I see a race war as something much more likely to happen.
SCENARIO:
Blacks unite to demand jobs and upward mobility and blame the Whites in general.

Any Whites who don't belong to the top 10% richest (90% of them) react with rage because they too are being oppressed by the richest of the rich, and don't like being called out for something they have no hand in especially when they are the victims too.

Both groups go to war with each other while the super rich profit off of it. This would also cause more division which would only magnify there power and is likely to be orchestrated behind the scenes by the top 1% as a power move anyway.


That travesty to me is more likely than any revolution that will bring about any real positive change. Our country is simply too racially divided to unite for a common cause.

[Observation]

Originally Posted by David Alleyne

I agree with Killa's point in bold because Blacks have tried and failed because our demographic just don't have the numbers to do anything. It has to be sparked by the Whites.

Ckhthankgod, I don't really know...Taking in knowledge and understanding of how things work will make the average Black person become a zealous advocate. Say, if Blacks do mobilize in an organized manner and take a stand...COINTELPRO like tactics would swallow us up (like they did the Panther Party). The number 1 demographic wouldn't think anything of it (no surprise there). I think that there has to be a Black/Brown federation for anything to get done (simply speaking).

A white only revolution would anger browns and blacks, and could cause severe racial unrest, and almost definitely violence.
A black/brown movement would do the same thing.

The only way for what you want to happen is a black/brown/white movement to take place, but that will probably never happen due to distrust and hatred between blacks and whites.

[David Alleyne]

Observation, this country does have a long and tired history with "race". The only way that I see this Brown/White/Black/Amerindian (can't forget about the Natives) federation happening is if we rid ourselves of the concept of race, too much damage has been done because of it.

I don't really know how realistic that is though because that concept has been forced fed to US citizen (and the world) for so long. I already know that it belongs in a toilet bowl and I'd like to flush it but it has been made into a reality and I realize that it's against me (the concept that is and all of the faux scientific sources and stats behind it).

[Thomas R.]

America is not really prone to revolutions. Even during the Great Depression we didn't have one. Communism and Fascism were stronger than normal, but I'd think in France or maybe even Britain of that period both were stronger than in the US.

"Civil unrest" is a bit more wide open to variation. You could say, reasonably so, that we are having civil unrest. There's the stuff in Madison, Wisconsin and before that various Tea Party demonstrations. So you could say both the Right and Left have had some civil unrest in this recession.

One issue that might keep from being hot is that people under 30 are, comparatively speaking, content. Rioting and throwing stuff can be done by people of any age, but the young probably have more energy for it and generally statistically speaking violent crimes are a young man's game. Anyway along with not being particularly angry the current youth of America also poll as relatively tolerant or apolitical. If a polarizing or economic issue really starts shaking the youth during the job recession than maybe we'd see more violent unrest. One real-world possibility is both sides in the budget debate seem to want cut Pell Grants. If various things to help poor and/or minority college students are cut than possibly we'd start seeing some bad stuff go down. More fanciful if the draft were to be re-instated there might be unrest, but I don't think that's at all likely.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by David Alleyne

Observation, this country does have a long and tired history with "race". The only way that I see this Brown/White/Black/Amerindian (can't forget about the Natives) federation happening is if we rid ourselves of the concept of race, too much damage has been done because of it.

I don't really know how realistic that is though because that concept has been forced fed to US citizen (and the world) for so long. I already know that it belongs in a toilet bowl and I'd like to flush it but it has been made into a reality and I realize that it's against me (the concept that is and all of the faux scientific sources and stats behind it).

I don't think it's realistic at all.

The problem in this country with race isn't that people self identify as black, white, asian, or latino. It's not even how people hold on to the cultural heritage that causes trouble.

It's one of the following or a combination of the following:

1. Ignorance
2. Concepts of racial superiority
3. Hatred

For example, if you took two men:

-One was white super proud of his family roots in Alabama and had the redest neck you could ever imagine

-One was black and proud of his heritage in Alabama but is also a Muslim

Both could be friends very easily if they had mutual respect for each other as people. Also, having things in common like working in the same office, enjoying the same activities, living in the same neighborhood goes a long way towards helping people avoid race based hate.

The problem occurs when you have person a (who is specific race or ethnicity) who hates person b (who is a specific race or ethnicity) just because person b is that type of person. That's what racism and bigotry are all about and what must be stamped out.

Everyone should be allowed to identify themselves as how they see fit. The idea that we would ever get away from cultural or racial identifiers in this country is quite frankly unrealistic. I mean, if a decision was made one day by some person that you should give up your whole identity as it pertains to your family background or your religion or faith (or however you identify yourself in a collective group of some sort) in favor having none at all or another one separate from yours. Wouldn't you laugh in such a person face?

We as a society must see color and faith and recognize differences. It's what makes us culturally rich. We should however turn away from hate because some is different, and we have done a good job of that thus far in this country in the last 30 years or so.

[southernnaturelover]

I don't think we'll ever see civil unrest on a nationwide scale, however I do believe it could happen in several major cities at one time.

[jbear182]

In general Americans can be really apathetic so it would have to be something drastic.

[danielj72]

Yes it is possible. Its happened here on a large scale twice in our history in the revolution and the civil war. Only a fool would think we have advanced so far that it cannot happen here. Look at our current situation. Our nation is divided into two camps politically. One believes in the free markets, capitolism, believes in judeo Christian values and supports most traditional values. The other supports a more socialist approach, supports liberal social values, believes traditional Christian values are repressive and should be eliminated. These two viewpoints can never be reconciled, and those who strongly believe in either view think the other view is the enemy. The only thing that prevents violence between these two groups now is our high standard of living. Prosperous people usually do not rebell, and for that reason we live peacfully together in a federal union with people who support radically different views than ourselves. The real problem is the fact that our prosperity is now in great danger. The goverment has spent this nation to the point of bankrupcy, and hostile foriegn powers hold our debt AND control the oil resources that our modern society depends upon. If we default on our debt, or lose access to the oil we need our economy will crash in a way that will make the great depression look like a picnic. Not only will we no longer have jobs, we wont have any of the modern things we have become accustomed too. Cell phones, cable TV, internet access may all be gone in a world where the US economy has collapsed. Even food may not be available for all. If this scenerio occured there would be no reason for this nation to hold together. THe opposing political views are very much geograpically split, with liberal progressives strong in the northeast and the west coast. Conservative traditionalist strong in the south and west, and the midwest being a mix of both. Disunion and civil war may be possible again in this nation if our prosperity were to collapse. We are no different than anyone else in the world, when people are poor, angry and feel oppressed by thier leaders they rebel. When they blame other groups of people for thier misery they lash out with violence. It has happened in this nation twice before, it is likely to happen again in the future. In fact the conditions to allow it are building at this time. If we think back upon the political animosity of the past 10 years, think of the building national debt and oil shocks. Think of the economic panic of 08, and the relentless economic decline since then. Americans love to think things like this could never happen here, and we sit on the deck of the titanic and listen to the sounds of the band playing. Aww the iceberg wasnt that big, afterall this ship is unsinkable right?????

[annie_himself]

Asking people to forget race is the stupidest thing I've heard to solve our race problems. We need to accept, learn, and love our other races in this country. The whites pushed out the Native Americans and this country tried to forget them, did that solve it? No, blacks were put in segregated neighborhoods while the whites moved to the burbs, did that solve our problems?