Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude
First of all, what dies it mean to be culturally White Anerican? Listening to country music?
Secondly, some fraction of Hispanics are culturally and visually indistinguishable from non-Hispanic whites.
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No.
It's convoluted for sure, but to be considered "culturally white american" you must fall into one of the following groups:
-Descended from the original European colonialists. *Extremely rare outside the Eastern (both North and South) United States
-Descended from the mass immigrations the United States from Europe in the 19th and early 20th century
-Be at least second generation or higher descendant of Hispanic White immigrants from Mexico, Central America, South America or the Caribbean with an exception to those of mestizo origin (more on this in a second). People that fall into that category would typically be seen as being "culturally White American" after a generation or two intermarriage with one of the first two groups
Now as you might have noticed I have used the moniker "culturally White American" as opposed to "ethnically White American". The reason is that in United States, race takes on both a physical and cultural persona regardless of anyone's ethnic make up. As sad and as f'ed as it may sound this is due to how handled "race" since the founding of the country (and before) and the way it was handled after the Civl War: Where on the totem pole do people who are either half white/half black or half white/half native american fall on the social pecking order scale of society and how much will these people be included or excluded from certain roles and rights in society.
Back in those times, many European Americans saw the other "races" as being not completely human. Even those who were enlightened enough to know that chaining people up and using them as slave labor or the ethnic cleansing that took place in the homelands of Native Americans was a bad thing still often believed in this train of thought. Since they had descended from a society in which social order was everything and determined what people could and could not do, they "had to" come up with a way of classifying where these people who blurred the lines between the obvious. This is where the trouble began.
In their system people, it worked basically like this:
1. People who were without a doubt had 100% European ancestry. They could own land, vote, serve in public office, and pretty much live liberty to the fullest. Well, "the right kind of" European ancestry at least (see 2a below).
2. People of half European, half Native American ancestry. In some places they could enjoy all the rights someone of full European ancestry could enjoy, in some places they had no rights. In many cases, no distinction was made if they physically appeared White and "passed" for such in public (more on this in a second).
2a. Poor whites who were 100% European. Even though society considered them White, position in early American society was determined by your ability to own land and/or slaves. Since poor whites could do neither, they were disenfranchised in the same manner those of mixed European and Native American ancestry were. Recent immigrants to America post Revolution most usually fell into this category, others fell into another mysterious category (see 3a below).
3. People of half European, half African ancestry. In most places they were never afforded most of the rights or position in society that groups 2 enjoyed. While there were pockets of the country where they could live a peacefully and productive life (mostly New England and in French territories), there would never be seen as being "more White" than they were "black" in the same manner group 2 could be.
3a. This may come as a surprise but people who were of Southern European or most parts of Eastern European descent fell into the group 3 sphere of rights and liberty. Most of this was due to cultural friction between Western Europe and other parts of Europe at the time. In some cases, people from Southern or Eastern European weren't even considered "White" in American society due to the darker skin tones of some peoples in that region. The only way out of this in early America was to change your name, dress, and customs to something either Anglo, Germanic or Franco. (F'ed up, ain't it?)
{gap)
4. White women.
{very big gap}
5. Everyone else.
Now of course, none of this makes sense and is extremely subjective, but this is how society operated for a long time and there was little way to escape it until the Civil Rights movements of the mid-19th to mid-20th century. Unless of course, if you "passed".
When the genetic material of different ethnicities is mixed, you will never get exact results. In one family of mixed ethnicities you can have 1 child that looks like an "equal mix" of both ethnicities and one child that could be indistinguishable from the appearance of one of the parents. Due to this genetic anomaly, many people who fell into the category of looking more like their European ethnicity acted as if they were fully of European descent so that they can get all the rights of those who were truly 100% of European descent.
There were even communities where people of mixed European/African ancestry that formed so that they could only procreate with each in an effort to keep their descendants "looking White", thus being able to avoid being denied educational or employment opportunities.
On the flip side of that, those who were of half European/half Native American ancestry often wore it of a badge of honor. Since there were less societal stigmas against that social union, descendants continued to acknowledge their ancestry even if they had intermarried through the generations with so many people of European descent that there were no longer any physical signs of their Native American ancestry.
Getting back on point, I say all of this because you must know this to understand fully what it means to be a "White American" in our society. For sure, we have came a long way since the horrible days of race based hierarchy and legalized discrimination in this country, but the echoes of this past still remain. So much so it is as not as easy to say that someone who physically may appear "White" would be considered "White" in America.
In one way, it is the culture one accepts for themselves. For instance, a man named Walter White (surname irony) was the founder of the NAACP. He also looked like this:
To clear up any confusion, he was of mixed European and African ancestry and as you can tell he could very easily pass for being 100% white and most would never think to think otherwise if they were not told who he was or what he did with his life. However, despite what must have been a very tempting proposition for anyone living during that time, he chose not to and embraced his African-American roots more so. He attended the Historically black college Atlanta University and as I mentioned before he went on to found and preside over the NAACP. Most people would acknowledge that he is partially white, but would most definitely subconsciously label him as being "more black" than "white"
This is basically what it comes down to with being considered "White" in America. It is balance between how people identify (or not acknowledge their ancestry openly) themselves, and how others are perceived by appearance.
For instance, if it were just as simple as having European ancestry that made you white, then why is it that President Obama by appearance would never be labeled as such yet someone one like this guy would always be assumed to be white even though he has a "white" father and an Asian mother making him "just as white" as President Obama genetically speaking:
All of this is why I made the distinction to be careful to not automatically label those Hispanics of European origin as "White" in American terms. On one hand, of them have a different set of cultural values that differ from those Americans of European descent have thus while they appear "White" and are European, American society in most cases would not label them as such.
On the other hand, they may only physically appear to be "100% White" but are of mixed ethnic ancestry. For Latinos from Mexico, Central and South America that is extremely likely as interracial marriage and procreation did not have the same stigma it had in America for so long. Hell, in some places it was encouraged.
I want to state for the record though that your argument does have merit. Despite all of the cultural factors we deal with in society, there are many people who are Latino that are literally 100% European. Most people in the United States are not aware that in the 1920s the Federal government began to limit immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe to almost zero and it continued this way until reforms were passed in 1965. During that period, Europeans from those regions still wanted to come to the Americas so they shifted elsewhere. Mainly Brazil and Argentina. There was so much immigration from places like Italy to Argentina and Brazil that they have a Italian population on par with the United States.
Finally I do want to say that I hope for a time where all of these dark areas regarding race are no longer with us Americans. More so than pretty much every other country on the planet, we dice and dived ourselves on such trivial matters it is to the point of idiocy. All people should be allowed to honor their ancestors and their cultural heritage, but I hope for the day when Americans stop defining people strictly by which category they fit in by appearance.
Sadly, it will be several generations before this happens in any real and meaningful way.
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their economic growth will be weak or negative (japan) in the future, but for the US no problemo, we're so gifted 
