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Look, YOU brought up Affirmative Action as an example of a way in which "minorities walk over the majority" and now you're asking ME to prove how a company discriminates if only has whites and Asians in the eyes of that law. With respect, it seems to me you don't know how AA works. Why don't you do a little research?
Until then, I continue to see the overwhelming number of politicians (national to my local dogcatcher), judges, corporate CEOs, university presidents and Hollywood media moguls are white and male like me. I'm personally not feeling particularly oppressed by minorities. If you are a white male and are feeling oppressed and "walked on" by minorities, I hope it gets better for you.
I'm not asking YOU to prove it. I'm saying that a violation of that law sometimes cannot be proven. I don't feel oppressed, either. Why does everything have to be personal when it comes to talking to you? When I said minorities walking all over the majority I'm talking about situations such as in Europe with dual legal systems (one for Muslims and one for everyone else). Why in the hell should any nation have to bend over backwards for a minority?
I didn't bring up the things that I brought up because I'm a victim. I brought them up because they are legitimate concerns. Good grief.
I'm originally from San Francisco.
Many people say SF is one of the most beautiful cities in the world and it is.
There is no place like SF in the world.
SF is the most liberal county in America.
SF residents don't care about smelling pot smoke everywhere or seeing interracial couples or two men holding hands.
Much like the Georgia Ave poster said about D.C., SF means different things to different people.
There is an enclave for almost every type of person in SF:
The Castro is SF's world-famous "gayborhood"
The Sunset District is Asia in America; this is as close as you will get to China in America
Haight Ashbury was the cornerstone of the Hippie movement of the 60's.
The Mission District is SF's barrio, or Latino neighborhood; unfortunately certain pockets of this neighborhood are plagued by gang warfare between rival Nortenos and Surenos
The Richmond District is an enclave for recent European immigrants from Irish to Russians
Hunter's Point/Lakeview/Sunnydale/Potrero Hill are the nearly continuous chunk of rough, remote, hard to find, tucked-away ghetto neighborhoods concentrated throughout the southern half of the City. This sometimes very dangerous side of SF is not advertised in the national media because SF's economy is solely based on tourism and bad press about The City would mean losing money. Ghetto natives of these areas refer to San Francisco as "Frisco" or the "Sucka Free City". These neighborhoods have undergone significant gentrification over the past 15 years or so and are much safer today than in the 70's, 80's, 90's and early 2000's. Many of these neighborhoods had historically high or predominantly Black populations. However, SF has witnessed the steepest decline in its Black population of any major American city since the 70's from around 16% in 1970 to about 6% today. These areas of the city are the most diverse because of gentrification.
Like many world-class American cities like D.C. and NYC, SF has become insanely expensive to live in. Much like these other cities I mentioned, SF attracts the nomadic rich from all over the country and the world. The middle class in SF is becoming an endangered species in The City. The quality of life in the poorer neighborhoods is a world away from the exclusive affluent neighborhoods. Most big American cities are like this. Rich people live a lavish lifestyle in the fancy upscale areas while poor folks live in crime-ridden quasi-third world squalor less than a mile away.
I have never been to England but my husband has on business. He is blown away with the ancient history. 200 years to you is nothing but that is how old our country is. But he also said how small everything is. The homes and places to stay. Our country is enormous in comparison. Our houses, especially in the Midwest, have big yards. Not all, especially in big cities, but in most towns we have room to spread out. Our living areas are huge.
I live in Kansas and we have a friend from Boston. When he first moved here he thought he would take a day trip to Colorado to see the mountains. Well after he drove half the day and was in no way near the mountains he decided he better turn around and come back. No way can that be a day trip but the Northeast states are all small and near each other, not out here in the Midwest.
So one can have many living conditions in our country. Take your pick. We have more diversity just in land. From forests, desert, ocean, tropics and mountains. You can live in the area you like most.
I'm a black male so no. But I run into white people who are nervous and scared to say certain things around me or act a certain way. I haven't walked over anyone though.
I figure it's healthy to talk abut race instead of pretending it doesn't exist. If it's done with real honest intent, a lot of learning can occur.
I try to keep my eyes open. From what I've seen, it's my people who've been doing most of the walking.
When I said minorities walking all over the majority I'm talking about situations such as in Europe with dual legal systems (one for Muslims and one for everyone else).
No, you also said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB
How about affirmative action? How is affirmative action fair to anyone? It's unfair to the majority because they are discriminated against and it's unfair to the minority because it makes them strive less for achievement in my opinion.
Don't deflect and claim differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB
Why does everything have to be personal when it comes to talking to you?
Because people make claims about "what happens all the time" but when pushed for facts, can't supply any. It's not personal - its just if you say it, you own it. Prove your assertion with your own story or something real instead of something you believe. It turns out you know next to nothing about Affirmative Action.
Because people make claims about "what happens all the time" but when pushed for facts, can't supply any. It's not personal - its just if you say it, you own it. Prove your assertion with your own story or something real instead of something you believe. It turns out you know next to nothing about Affirmative Action.
Those first two are two different types of examples of the majority being bound by minorities, and they were intended as such. Deflect and claim differently? I simply stated more than one example. According to you however I shouldn't have mentioned them however since I don't claim to be a victim of Affirmative Action & I'm not a European that has to deal with a dual society because the Arabs don't want western law to apply to them.
I also never said "it happens all the time", but that's alright just keep putting words in my mouth.
I also never said "it happens all the time", but that's alright just keep putting words in my mouth.
Here's what YOU said, not me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB
However, letting a minority walk all over you because your in the majority doesn't make you less racist than someone that sees the races as true equals.
When pushed for an example of this point, here's what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB
How about affirmative action? How is affirmative action fair to anyone? It's unfair to the majority because they are discriminated against and it's unfair to the minority because it makes them strive less for achievement in my opinion.
When you couldn't back it up, here's what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB
When I said minorities walking all over the majority I'm talking about situations such as in Europe with dual legal systems (one for Muslims and one for everyone else).
That's called deflection - you never addressed your assertion that Affirmative Action is a way in which minorities "walk all over" the majority. So back to that. I've seen no facts. I've only seen assertions based on a lack of understanding of the law.
Failure to answer with facts as proof* (or to admit your error) is deflection. I'm gonna help you here. Before you respond, do some homework and learn about Affirmative Action. Start here: U.S. Department of Labor - Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) - Facts on Executive Order 11246 — Affirmative Action (http://www.dol.gov/ofccp/regs/compliance/aa.htm - broken link)
When pushed for an example of this point, here's what you said:
When you couldn't back it up, here's what you said:
That's called deflection - you never addressed your assertion that Affirmative Action is a way in which minorities "walk all over" the majority. So back to that. I've seen no facts. I've only seen assertions based on a lack of understanding of the law.
Failure to answer with facts as proof* (or to admit your error) is deflection. I'm gonna help you here. Before you respond, do some homework and learn about Affirmative Action. Start here: U.S. Department of Labor - Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) - Facts on Executive Order 11246 — Affirmative Action (http://www.dol.gov/ofccp/regs/compliance/aa.htm - broken link)
Once again I never said that this happens all the time. So get a clue & learn how to read. I backed it up with the simple fact that enforcement of the AA law is a gray area, but anytime I decide to propose a scenario to illustrate my point you automatically think it's a personal experience and I'm trying to make myself look like a victim, and completely miss the point.
Once again I never said that this happens all the time. So get a clue & learn how to read. I backed it up with the simple fact that enforcement of the AA law is a gray area, but anytime I decide to propose a scenario to illustrate my point you automatically think it's a personal experience and I'm trying to make myself look like a victim, and completely miss the point.
Actually, look above at my post you quoted: I never use the words "all the time" nor have I ever said you specifically do anything all the time. In one post I did state:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02
. . . people make claims about "what happens all the time" but when pushed for facts, can't supply any.
I wasn't referring specifically to you, but perhaps the shoe fits and that's why you misquoted me??
Once again, however, you deflected my challenge of providing evidence where Affirmative Acation is an example of minorities "walking all over" the majority. You've changed topics again, this time to enforcement of Affirmative Action. And even in that, you claim have you "backed it up with the simple fact that enforcement of the AA law is a gray area." Saying something isn't "backing it up with simple facts;" it's simply typing some letters and pushing submit reply. If I say I believe in gnomes, does that mean they are real?
Just for the sake of argument, however, let's say your premise is true and you PROVE enforcement of AA is a gray area. Enforcement of ANY law is a gray area. This proves WHAT exactly? And how again is that an example of minorities "walking all over" the majority (your words)??
I repeat:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02
. . you never addressed your assertion that Affirmative Action is a way in which minorities "walk all over" the majority. So back to that. I've seen no facts. I've only seen assertions based on a lack of understanding of the law.Failure to answer with facts as proof (or to admit your error) is deflection.
Until then, your arguments are empty.
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