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View Poll Results: Should the US deport illegal immigrants and better prevent their arrival?
Yes. 47 74.60%
No. 16 25.40%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-19-2011, 12:49 PM
 
11,015 posts, read 21,568,106 times
Reputation: 10641

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I can't even imagine how much the costs of goods would go up if we deported them, whether I think we should or not. We'd all be in a HUGE world of hurt the next time anyone wanted to go buy any food items or have to pay for all those low paying menial jobs we take for granted.

We have unemployment, but I don't know where 8 million unemployed Americans are who would actually scream for the chance to do back-breaking work 6 days a week for wages that aren't going to sustain their families to any degree that American-born people are normally use to.

People act like these illegal immigrants come and take all our doctor and lawyer positions. They're here under the radar doing all the crap we don't want to do, and luckily for us doing it for FAR less pay at that. If that wasn't the case these employers would naturally just hire legal Americans so they wouldn't have to worry about the situation. Illegal immigrants keep the price of things such as housecleaning, agriculture, food processing and landscaping artificially low in this country, much much lower than it would be according to the laws we have in place for minimum wage and benefits. They do the work because they really have no choice and want to support their family to give their kids a fresh start. We tend to look the other way because we like our lawns taken care of for $4 an hour, our hotel rates low because the maids are getting pocket change, and buying lettuce at $0.99 a head.

This "black market" of an entire class of low paid and undocumented people is actually something that drives the USA to be the rich country it is, and to grow (normally when the markets aren't so screwed) at a higher pace than other areas like Europe that don't really see that underclass. One of the big reasons Europe took off in the 1990's like we did is because they suddenly had that huge pool of eastern europeans to pump into the economy and produce things for a much lower rate after the fall of the iron curtain.

It's one of the reason's China is in the limelight right now. More work for less money = more profit. Not saying it's right or wrong or we should kick them all out or throw a huge party for them, but illegal immigrants are one big reason the rest of us Americans in the mainstream are allowed to live the elevated lives we live. There's only a limited pool of resources. They're coming into our country to produce a lot of goods at a much smaller rate of personal return then we're use to. As a result the rest of us get the benefit of having those services and goods produced, and we ALSO get that rate of return that they're not collecting.

Last edited by Chicago60614; 07-19-2011 at 01:00 PM..

 
Old 07-19-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,628 posts, read 12,113,968 times
Reputation: 4051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
The United States was founded as an extension of Europe. It is, or was, a white nation. As time goes on, that identity of America is being changed.
Ugh, it's really, really tough when you start off with "white nation". But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I understand what you mean by the statment that the United States was a white nation...however was it intended to be a white nation or did it just happen to be one since it was before the creation of modern forms of transportation? In that time, few Euro countries had experienced the sort of influx of immigrants that it has recently.

For being a white nation, people didn't have much of a problem shipping over a few million black people to give them free labor. As the US moved West, we were taking over territories controlled by the Mexicans. Even in their earliest days as US territories and states, places like Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and California were heavily Latin. The real change has been the change of those areas becoming less Latin.

Also, if you look at the "original" America (the white country you referred to), the Northeast, it's still the whitest part of the country. The only reason the Southeast isn't as white is because Southerners shipped over slaves, as I mentioned before. Still, when you look at the demographics of states and cities in the Southeast, they are largely black & white--with the exception of Miami, which for many reasons has an enormous Carribbean population.

Quote:
In essence, a genocide of the white nation, and many other white nations, is occurring. After all, you don't see the same thing happening to non-white nations.
To be fair, our "white nation" only exists because of a genocide of a darker race.

Traditionally, white nations have been the wealthiest. The fact that people of other skin colors are moving into these countries is our own fault...at least to a degree. The globalization of our economy and marketing ourselves as "the land of opportunity" means we're always going to have people from other countries wanting to move here.

Quote:
At the same time, history has shown that diverse societies are timebombs of ethnic, cultural, and racial conflicts. They are unstable and eventually split along ethnic, cultural, religious, and/or racial lines.
Are you referring to the Romans? I'd like you to expand a little bit more on this. If you are indeed referrring to the Romans, they were diverse because they invaded territories which were home to other cultures. As I mentioned before, as the US expanded West (primarily Southwest) we were taking over cultures that were home to others. So to keep these areas white, we'd have to commit another genocide...and I really, really hope you're not suggesting we do that.

Quote:
By increasing this "diversity", it is setting up a situation in the not-so-distant future when calls for separation will be the norm. Many Mestizos in the southwest have already called for the American southwest to become a "hispanic" homeland.
I don't think people are necessarily wanting to increase this diversity. On the flip-side, you appear to be calling for zero diversity, which is dangerous thinking in my opinion.

Quote:
People like to believe in the idea of multi-racial societies, but they don't like the idea of living around such. They like the idea of being "tolerant", but they don't feel comfortable living with the effects of that "tolerance".
Yes, some people do feel this way...however not all.

Quote:
They naturally separate themselves. When people can't escape non-comfortable atmospheres, as will be the case within a decade or two, hostility in the form of arguments and violence happens.
Violence has, does, and always will happen as a result of cultural & religious differences. It doesn't necessarily mean our society will implode.

Quote:
My own opinion is that the United States will probably balkanize into multiple countries within the next fifty years. Why? Too many people of differing racial groups admitted to the country, which will generate conflict and desire for group interests and separate nation-hood
This is a pretty extreme view if you ask me. I don't know of a specific area of the country which is 60-70% non-white and a single race (meaning a single area which is 60% Mexican).

Quote:
When the majority group loses majority status, it is the time in general when past minority groups start fighting for group-rule, and when the former majority group seeks to separate itself from the newcomers.
This is a confusing statement. Are you saying if City X is traditionally: 25% Asian, 25% Hispanic, 50% white shifts to: 40% Asian, 40% Hispanic, 20% white, the Asians and Hispanics are going to fight for power in City X while all of the whites leave?

If not, I'd like you to explain more.

Quote:
All in all, however, what is happening is unique to European nations and nations of European descent. It appears that a movement to make whites minorities within their countries is underway. This isn't only in the United States, but also the UK, Canada, Australia, France, Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, and many other countries. To do such aligns with the U.N charter of genocide.
According to this, the US is 72.4% white. Of that, 83.7% are non-hispanic (though the Hispanic growth is astounding over the past decade). That equates to: 60.6% non-hispanic white, or 187,096,091 people. That also means there are 36,435,678 legal hispanics in the US. For fun, let's say there are just as many illegals...so 73,000,000 hispanics in the US. For whites to be overtaken by hispanics, the entire country of Mexico (~112,000,000 people) will have to move here. So I think we're a ways away from the "genocide" you're referring to.

Oh, also the UK is ~87% white, Canada ~85%, Australia (who again is a country as a result of expansion into another culture) ~90%, Germany ~91.5%, France 79.66%, Sweden ~95%, Netherlands ~81%.

Quote:
Regarding assimilation, people of the same racial stock can assimilate relatively well by the second generation, and be seen as roughly the same. On the other hand, immigrants of a different racial stock from the majority population never truly assimilate, as they see themselves as different and seek to maximize those differences. Furthermore, the majority population sees them as different, not only because they are, but because the other group is seeking to identify themselves as different.
Ultimately, you and others are acting as if we're on the verge of the apocalypse. This isn't to say we shouldn't be weary of the exploding Mexican population, but you're acting as if this country is about to be destroyed when that isn't the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pollster31 View Post
yes!!!!!

anyone caught crossing again should be executed on the border and made an example of and then put landmines all over the border. anchor babies born here should get the same treatment; i dont care how long u have been here, u deserve to get the death penalty for breaking our nations laws
Dude you're a nut. We should put landmines around your yard.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,207 posts, read 25,902,249 times
Reputation: 8963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
I can't even imagine how much the costs of goods would go up if we deported them, whether I think we should or not. We'd all be in a HUGE world of hurt the next time anyone wanted to go buy any food items or have to pay for all those low paying menial jobs we take for granted.

We have unemployment, but I don't know where 8 million unemployed Americans are who would actually scream for the chance to do back-breaking work 6 days a week for wages that aren't going to sustain their families to any degree that American-born people are normally use to.

People act like these illegal immigrants come and take all our doctor and lawyer positions. They're here under the radar doing all the crap we don't want to do, and luckily for us doing it for FAR less pay at that. If that wasn't the case these employers would naturally just hire legal Americans so they wouldn't have to worry about the situation. Illegal immigrants keep the price of things such as housecleaning, agriculture, food processing and landscaping artificially low in this country, much much lower than it would be according to the laws we have in place for minimum wage and benefits. They do the work because they really have no choice and want to support their family to give their kids a fresh start. We tend to look the other way because we like our lawns taken care of for $4 an hour, our hotel rates low because the maids are getting pocket change, and buying lettuce at $0.99 a head.
Both sides make great points but this is my problem with getting rid of illegal immigrants as well. On my way back from Arkansas last week, I saw item picking up trash on the sides of roads. It was hot and ridiculously humid and sticky. This is an all day affair for six days. I don't think many Americans are going to sign up to similar jobs anymore.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 01:06 PM
 
8,639 posts, read 8,771,906 times
Reputation: 5185
they are illegal so by definition they are criminals, also in order to get a job its ethier idnetity theft or money loitering both of which are crimes.
to drive they dont have a drivers permit or license so thats illegal too.
so ALL illegals are criminals.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
302 posts, read 522,831 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
anyone caught crossing again should be executed on the border and made an example of and then put landmines all over the border. anchor babies born here should get the same treatment; i dont care how long u have been here, u deserve to get the death penalty for breaking our nations laws
Sorry, but North Korea is that way. *points east*
 
Old 07-19-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
1,704 posts, read 2,627,549 times
Reputation: 2325
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Analog Man View Post
There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant living a crime free life. Deport them all. I understand its very to immigrate here legally yet I'm all for making it even stricter.
There's no such thing as anyone living a crime-free life. Unless you can honestly tell me you've never gone over the speed limit, not even half a mph over, not even for a split second. If you're using "crime" as a measure of human morality and worth, you've got some serious thinking to do. You also make it sound like you think all illegal immigrants are drug dealers or something, which is just bull****. Most illegal immigrants have exactly the same goal the original colonists did: to start over and make a better life. It's so f*cking hypocritical for an American to deny that right (you know, the one to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness). I'm all for deporting drug dealers and smugglers and habitual law-breakers who do not and will not contribute to society, but it's actually disgusting, primitive, xenophobic, and more than a little racist to treat every single illegal immigrant the same.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
5,361 posts, read 7,052,536 times
Reputation: 3973
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel03 View Post
There's no such thing as anyone living a crime-free life. Unless you can honestly tell me you've never gone over the speed limit, not even half a mph over, not even for a split second. If you're using "crime" as a measure of human morality and worth, you've got some serious thinking to do. You also make it sound like you think all illegal immigrants are drug dealers or something, which is just bull****. Most illegal immigrants have exactly the same goal the original colonists did: to start over and make a better life. It's so f*cking hypocritical for an American to deny that right (you know, the one to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness). I'm all for deporting drug dealers and smugglers and habitual law-breakers who do not and will not contribute to society, but it's actually disgusting, primitive, xenophobic, and more than a little racist to treat every single illegal immigrant the same.
Sorry to say, but this is the lamest post.

So, what you are saying is that Americans are hypocritical for denying those who aren't using the legal processes to enter our country.

WELL.

I wish to start over for a few months in Germany (among many other places), so do you think it is hypocritical for all of these other countries (let's please use Mexico in this as well) to deny me this right to enter without following their legal processes??
 
Old 07-19-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
1,704 posts, read 2,627,549 times
Reputation: 2325
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZLiam View Post
Sorry to say, but this is the lamest post.

So, what you are saying is that Americans are hypocritical for denying those who aren't using the legal processes to enter our country.

WELL.

I wish to start over for a few months in Germany (among many other places), so do you think it is hypocritical for all of these other countries (let's please use Mexico in this as well) to deny me this right to enter without following their legal processes??
Most illegal immigrants have tried unsuccessfully to enter legally. You seem to think anyone can enter legally if they just try, but that is so far from the truth it shows how little you know about what you're saying. US border policy is rooted in racism and hypocrisy, and I will not be replying to this thread anymore because of the ubiquity of that attitude.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
5,361 posts, read 7,052,536 times
Reputation: 3973
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel03 View Post
Most illegal immigrants have tried unsuccessfully to enter legally. You seem to think anyone can enter legally if they just try, but that is so far from the truth it shows how little you know about what you're saying. US border policy is rooted in racism and hypocrisy, and I will not be replying to this thread anymore because of the ubiquity of that attitude.
Dude, what are you talking about??

I never stated that I thought anyone could enter legally if they just tried. My ex is someone who went through the legal (and long) process to enter this country. In addition, you do not know what most illegal immigrants eat for lunch, let alone how they have tried to enter legally or illegally into this country. I know several people from Tucson (when I lived there) who came here illegally and did not initially attempt to go through the proper channels to do so.

Please do us a favor and don't reply anyways.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 02:14 PM
 
161 posts, read 130,396 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Analog Man View Post
Sorry, but North Korea is that way. *points east*
do u want them to stop coming or what? bottom line, force is the one way possible since its all that illegals understand. look at the drug wars. treat them like they would be treated in their country.

the only way that anyone will stop immigrating here illegaly is if we start executing all violators and make it public. its like this: if someone broke into your home, u wouldnt allow them to walk back in. youd make sure they wouldnt do it again in any way possible.

stop being a softie. we r the greatest country in the world. ill be damned if im gonna let these illegals take it away from me

there r plenty of ppl who agree with me. if u break the law, u lose ur life. tough luck.
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