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Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel
Southeast
*Maryland
*West VA
*Virginia
North & South Carolina
Georgia
*Florida
South Central
*Kentucky
Tennessee
Alabama
Mississippi
Louisiana
*Arkansas
Western South
*Oklahoma
*Texas
The states marked with an * may or may not be considered southern but they are and always will be. Welcome to the south.
Save Kentucky, all you have to support your opinion is really just that...your opinion. Any Civil War border state besides Kentucky is going to be at minimum a borderline case, at maximum an uphill argument when trying to decide whether or not it's Southern. You seem to be interested in only pre-Civil War history and not at all interested in post-Civil War behavior, which represents the majority of time these states have existed. I will give you Kentucky...I will even give you West Virginia...both of these states in most areas are associated more with the South, both before and after the Civil War. The rest of the Civil War border states don't...the simple fact they were even as divided as they were during the Civil War to begin with shows they were not really that definitively aligned with the South to begin with. Kentucky only stayed in the Union in my opinion because the Confederacy aggressively attempted to invade it...it professed its "Southerness" loud and clear by 1865. You're going to have to convince older people that I know who were born and raised in Maryland over 50 years ago that they don't know what they're talking about...and some of these people happen to be from the rural parts and went to Harvard, so they're not exactly dumb when it comes to knowing where geographically and culturally they fit. And yes, they know a lot about Southern culture, being less than 100 miles north of it. I don't know about you, but I have visited every Southern and historic border state numerous times now. Combined with several years of my own research, and people backing me up, I would bet I have a pretty good idea of which states belong where.
Last edited by stlouisan; 11-06-2011 at 11:30 PM..
When I think of southeastern, I think of states touching the Atlantic Ocean: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Florida also touches the Gulf of Mexico and the northwestern part is right below Alabama, but overall it is in a southeastely location.
Not all southern states are included because I don't consider the other ones as southeastern.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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I just know somebody is going to use recent additions to the SEC to argue this one...my only response is that if they are going to do that, they are going to need to justify that West Virginia belongs in the same region as those states which are a part of the Big 12, so good luck with that
I wasn't aware the southeast was a culture, but a region/location. Texas and Oklahoma are not located in the southeast. I consider them south central.
You can't jump from Southeast to southwest. There has to be a central; Texas and OK is that. Parts of that states can be divided between the two regions. Adding VA and KY to the SE is pushing it.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,062,227 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by memberX
When I think of southeastern, I think of states touching the Atlantic Ocean: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Florida also touches the Gulf of Mexico and the northwestern part is right below Alabama, but overall it is in a southeastely location.
Not all southern states are included because I don't consider the other ones as southeastern.
I generally tend to think of southern states east of the Mississippi River when thinking of the southeast.
I wasn't aware the southeast was a culture, but a region/location. Texas and Oklahoma are not located in the southeast. I consider them south central.
You can't jump from Southeast to southwest. There has to be a central; Texas and OK is that.
You've got to throw Louisiana and Arkansas in there, too.
When it comes down to it, the Southeast most strictly refers to those southern states which are east of the Mississippi - Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia and Kentucky (depending on who you talk to).
I voted all of them except for Maryland, West Virginia, Oklahoma, and Texas. Oklahoma and Texas are Southern but not Southeastern because of their ties (culturally and geographically) with the Southwest. West Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware are mixed, they're not really Northern or Southern.
I would definitely agree with goodly parts of this bolded statement. As in that other than far East Texas, very little of the state could be called "southeastern".
Still, at the same time I am going to wade in a moment and once again repeat an argrument I have made so many times in my C-D forum membership, that I think I might honestly be able to type it in my sleep! LOL
But seriously -- taken as a whole -- Texas is not "culturally and geographically" part of the "Southwest"...if by "Southwest" one is referring to the interior desert SW states of New Mexico and Arizona and parts or all of other bordering states of the Census Bureau West, which might fit that bill.
For one thing, those states did not even become states until the 20th Century...long after Texas (due to settlement patterns, etc) was firmly solidified as part of the American South.
Yes, of course, there is the exception of the trans-pecos area and, arguably, today, parts of South Texas. But unlike the true hispanic/native-American influenced Southwest, this is a comparatively recent phenomenon in terms of demographics. For instance, even San Antonio, whose very name conjures up images of Old Mexico, has a tremendous history of Old South influence and culture.
It is simply not possible for Texas to be really "influenced" by the true Southwest. If anything at all, there is a slice of eastern New Mexico that is influenced by Texas...and the attendant influence of Southern migration (Southern speech, Southern Baptist Church, etc). Even Oklahoma, with all its Native American heritage is not quite the same as NM and AZ in that regard. Most of the Oklahoma Indians came from the southeast states and culturally assimiliated early on.
I can never emphasize it strongly enough (not that anybody has to agree with it, of course! LOL), that the "Southwest" of Texas (and to a somewhat lesser extent, Oklahoma) are the "Southwest" of the original meaning of the term. That is, the literal western frontier of the South itself...the "western South." Defined as essentially and basically Southern in all the important ways yet, having unique characteristics that seperate it somewhat from its southeastern first cousins.
On the other hand -- to make direct comparissons -- while Texas (and Oklahoma) have many traits rightfully considered "western"? There is little to nothing "Southern" about New Mexico and Arizona. One set is "western South" while the other is "southern West"...and they are two very different critters! The "pairs" are just two totally different "Southwests" and do not belong classified in the same historical and cultural region with one another.
You've got to throw Louisiana and Arkansas in there, too.
When it comes down to it, the Southeast most strictly refers to those southern states which are east of the Mississippi - Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia and Kentucky (depending on who you talk to).
Arkansas is harder than I thought. Southern and Eastern Arkansas is Southeastern. But NW Arkansas is hardly Southeastern. It's kind of like Northern West Virginia. Lots of Midwestern influences in that part of the state. It's hard to explain Louisiana as well. That's why I struggled with these two states.
As far as MD, DC, VA, and WV. I still don't look at VA as Southeastern. But if you must classify all these places as Southern (which I do for VA and WV to an extent), than it should have it's own variation or region of the South like Texas and Oklahoma has for Western South. Maybe Upper South or something.
Yea its big, but I don't eat them and neither doesn't anyone I know besides my grandmother.
You struggled in LA because of boiled peanuts? Or am I missing the big picture.
Yeah you missed the big picture. In that Southern Louisiana and Northern Louisiana are night and day in just about everything.
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