Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. . . except according the folks who call the capital of the confederacy home. Attending school in Virginia and living in two counties there put me in contact with quite a few Richmond natives. Perhaps your friends born and raised in Richmond who consider themselves Yankees can give you a little more insight into the city next time you're in town: The Museum of the Confederacy: (http://www.moc.org/site/PageServer - broken link)
If it's working for you, however, knock yourself out.
That sign is just as useless as the mason-dixon line and virtually means nothing. If you believe that then good for you. But just remember some people in the true south do not consider VA southern nor do we care about what happens in VA. MY cousin lives in VA and she says there is nothing southern about it. I have been to VA many times and still hold on my opinion when I say it is southern-lite, you hit the REAL south once you hit north carolina or Tennessee. Anyone who comes here from Virginia will be in for a culture shock.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,094,873 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel
That sign is just as useless as the mason-dixon line and virtually means nothing. If you believe that then good for you. But just remember some people in the true south do not consider VA southern nor do we care about what happens in VA. MY cousin lives in VA and she says there is nothing southern about it. I have been to VA many times and still hold on my opinion when I say it is southern-lite, you hit the REAL south once you hit north carolina or Tennessee. Anyone who comes here from Virginia will be in for a culture shock.
There is no standard south. Virginia, West Virginia, and Kentucky are the Upper South, which has a similar to but slightly different culture, than the mid-south, which has a slight difference from the Deep South. The Midwest is composed of the Upper Midwest, Central Midwest, and Lower Midwest...the differences work relatively the same, although I will admit that there is a noticeable difference between the Upper and Deep South and Lower Midwest to Upper Midwest, but not enough to where you'd think you're in a foreign region of the country. Virginia still has more in common with Alabama than with Pennsylvania.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,094,873 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel
Got it from Wikipedia
Because those are the southern states. Virginia is often placed in the mid-atlantic states same with NY & PA. To be honest, Richmond wasn't all that southern. Maybe just "southern-lite" but definitely not southern like the deep south. Riding on the interstate I feel like I truly hit the real true blue south once I see the NC welcome sign.
Atlanta is a southern city and always regarded in that way. And we all know that south florida is not southern. Though I will say that northern FL is way more southern than anything in VA.
South Florida is a cultural hodgepode. It's the South and it's got big influences from recent migrations of northerners and latin americans. Less than half a century ago, South Florida was very Southern.
lol NO I am not a deep south purist, I just know what is southern and what is not. I was raised in the heart of dixie and so were my parents, and their parents, etc., etc. I have been to most southern states and have been to the northeast and out west. I think I have a lot of authority and experience to say what is southern and what isn't.
Sorry TJ...but the fact you were raised in the "Heart of Dixie" does not bestow any special credentials on you to define the South. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you really do fit that definition of Deep South purist! And hey, being of Deep South ancestry, I know the breed full well...as some are distant cousins and we kid each other back and forth quite a bit! LOL
So before you presume the credentials? Then you must first explain what criteria "defines the South"? But even before that, how many books/articles have you read/studied about the South? Have you published anything about Southern culture/history? Are "Southern studies" a part of your avocation? If one can't do that...then nothing else will work as in terms of being a self-defined "authority". That is a little high falutin', dont you think, to presume an expertiese on the South just because you were born in the Deep South? I was born in Texas and have been here four generations...but I don't present myself as an "authority" on the Alamo upon birth certificate alone...
But anyway, is to be "Southern" and have a Southern star dependent upon membership in the Confederacy? Southern Baptist Church domination? Southern American English spoken? What...?
I can say, for instance, that Texas was the origin of the phrase "Empire State of the South."...in 1858. It was a charter member of the original CSA (and voted for secession at a higher percentage than did Alabama), so is that "Southern" enough?
Quote:
Texas is hard to classify. Eastern TX is southern because it does border the southern states of louisiana and arkansas. Visiting in Texas and knowing several folks from tx there are some differences in texas. People in texas are overwhelmingly proud to be from Texas, not generally the south. Anyone from the deep south will know that texas culture is different from ours. Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Charleston,, Nashville etc just have a different feel than San antonio, dallas, and the tx panhandle.
And Memphis, Birmingham, and Nashville have a different feel from San Antonio and Dallas and Houston. Do you see the irony here? All you are essentially saying is something that I fully agree with. That Texas is TEXAS. We ALL know that.
But the basic elements of the state are Southern in origin. And you really havent provided anything to prove different other than the truth that most of Texas is not part of the classic Old South image. It is "western South", not "eastern South"...but the difference is only that is something akin (pun intended) between cousins, not a different family.
So I ask again, what are the elements of Southern history and culture that -- in your opinion -- Texas lacks and makes it more akin to the Southwest of New Mexico and Arizona?
Quote:
The Texas panhandle is close to colorado and new mexico.
Well, Tennessee is close to Illinois! LOL It doesnt mean it is part of the Midwest!
Quote:
And there is probably no difference between those state lines. Texas has a huge mexican influence same with AZ & New Mex etc. and they love their chili and tex mex cusine.
No it isn't and again, with all due respect, this is just another misconception on the part of some who know little about Texas history and its foundations...sans what they have seen in "western movies". True, Texas was once a Mexican possession, but let me just quote Raymond Gastil in his classic work "Cultural Regions of the United States"
Unlike the Interior Southwest, neither aboriginal Indian nor Spanish-American culture played a central role in the definition of the area. The people of Texas are mostly from the Lower, Upper, and Mountain South and these Southerners easily outnumbered the Spanish speaking and Indian people even before the state joined the Union. Therefore, when we refer to a large Spanish-speaking population in Texas, we are primarily speaking of a relatively recent immigrant population, quite different from the core areas of the Interior Southwest."
Tex-Mex and chili? It is very different from that type of the true SW and Mexico, and most from the true SW and Mexico will shun it as being "fake" Mexican food. And for good reason...as it is sort of a combination of Southern and Mexican. Did you know that that the prototype of the Texas cowboy were of the Old South "cattle drover" tradition...not the Mexican vaquero? Further, that the whole Texas "cowboy and cattle" tradition directly stemmed from the fall of Vicksburg, in 1863?
Quote:
Now be honest does this really look southern to you?
Sorry, but this superficial aspect matters for very little in the bigger picture (no pun intended). No, it doesnt look "Southern" in the classic sense of "moonlight and magnolias". I have stated this many times before. That is to say, from a topographical point of view, western Texas is probably the "least Southern" of all areas of the Old Confederate states.
But the thing is, the real important aspects in terms of regionalizing, is how the residents perceive themselves and historical and cultural aspects that trancend physiological considerations. For instance, the membership of the Southern Baptist Church in western Texas is on par with that of Mississippi and Alabama. What is known as Southern American English is nowhere stronger spoken and undiluted as in western Texas...
And that even leaves out that most in the western parts of the state, by a clear majority, consider themselves to live in the South and think of themselves as Southerners. Texans first? Of course. That is true all over the state. But it comes across somewhat smug and condecending on your part, to say they are wrong.
Let me take it to a more personal level, ok? I am as much a Southerner as you are and consider myelf so, TreasuredJewel. If you think different? Then say so and why?
But with all that said, I appreciate your civil and courteous points, even if I disagree with them. I always respect a worthy opponent!
And with all that said? I need to call it an evening! Y'all all have a good night!
That sign is just as useless as the mason-dixon line and virtually means nothing. If you believe that then good for you. But just remember some people in the true south do not consider VA southern nor do we care about what happens in VA. MY cousin lives in VA and she says there is nothing southern about it. I have been to VA many times and still hold on my opinion when I say it is southern-lite, you hit the REAL south once you hit north carolina or Tennessee. Anyone who comes here from Virginia will be in for a culture shock.
I came from Austin to Charlotte NC, and I experienced lite-culture-shock. Saying I experienced heavy culture-shock would be an exaggeration on my part BUT, coming from Austin Texas, everything here in NC such as, the people, the accents, the huge display of Southern-pride, the food, and the landscape, were all different here in NC, than what I was used to in Austin, in which I didn't see as much of that stuff. In other words, the change of cultures has more to do with the South being diverse culturally, rather than a place actually being Southern or not.
South Florida is a cultural hodgepode. It's the South and it's got big influences from recent migrations of northerners and latin americans. Less than half a century ago, South Florida was very Southern.
Actually, South Florida's Southern culture is just as much imported and "non-native" as it's current Culture. Miami was founded by a woman from Cleveland, and it's growth was due to Henry Flagler(New York) developing the Florida east-coast railroad. For most of it's history it was a resort city for Northerners. And it was founded after the Civil-War.
While the rest of the South was fighting the Civil War, the Seminole War was being fought in Miami. Miami pretty much went from Tequesta Indians, to the Spaniards, to the Brits for a little bit, than Bahamian workers came and influenced the culture for a bit, than Miami fell into the hands of Julia Tuttle(Woman from Cleveland), and William Brickell(man from Cleveland).
Miami never really became a "Southern-culture dominated" city, until the 1930's-on forward. For most of the Civil War, Florida was a WILD place, filled with deserters, much like a Wild West state.
"Several Florida counties became havens for Florida deserters as well as deserters from other Confederate states. Deserter bands attacked Confederate patrols, launched raids on plantations, confiscated slaves, stole cattle, and provided intelligence to Union army units and naval blockaders. Although most deserters formed their own raiding bands or simply tried to remain free from Confederate authorities, other deserters and Unionist Floridians joined regular Federal units for military service in Florida"
Most of South Florida's Southern history came from around the early 1900's on forward(Jim Crow, Southern migration to Miami, etc)
That sign is just as useless as the mason-dixon line and virtually means nothing. If you believe that then good for you. But just remember some people in the true south do not consider VA southern nor do we care about what happens in VA. MY cousin lives in VA and she says there is nothing southern about it. I have been to VA many times and still hold on my opinion when I say it is southern-lite, you hit the REAL south once you hit north carolina or Tennessee. Anyone who comes here from Virginia will be in for a culture shock.
Sorry TJ...but the fact you were raised in the "Heart of Dixie" does not bestow any special credentials on you to define the South. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you really do fit that definition of Deep South purist! And hey, being of Deep South ancestry, I know the breed full well...as some are distant cousins and we kid each other back and forth quite a bit! LOL
So before you presume the credentials? Then you must first explain what criteria "defines the South"? But even before that, how many books/articles have you read/studied about the South? Have you published anything about Southern culture/history? Are "Southern studies" a part of your avocation? If one can't do that...then nothing else will work as in terms of being a self-defined "authority". That is a little high falutin', dont you think, to presume an expertiese on the South just because you were born in the Deep South? I was born in Texas and have been here four generations...but I don't present myself as an "authority" on the Alamo upon birth certificate alone...
But anyway, is to be "Southern" and have a Southern star dependent upon membership in the Confederacy? Southern Baptist Church domination? Southern American English spoken? What...?
I can say, for instance, that Texas was the origin of the phrase "Empire State of the South."...in 1858. It was a charter member of the original CSA (and voted for secession at a higher percentage than did Alabama), so is that "Southern" enough?
And Memphis, Birmingham, and Nashville have a different feel from San Antonio and Dallas and Houston. Do you see the irony here? All you are essentially saying is something that I fully agree with. That Texas is TEXAS. We ALL know that.
But the basic elements of the state are Southern in origin. And you really havent provided anything to prove different other than the truth that most of Texas is not part of the classic Old South image. It is "western South", not "eastern South"...but the difference is only that is something akin (pun intended) between cousins, not a different family.
So I ask again, what are the elements of Southern history and culture that -- in your opinion -- Texas lacks and makes it more akin to the Southwest of New Mexico and Arizona?
Well, Tennessee is close to Illinois! LOL It doesnt mean it is part of the Midwest!
No it isn't and again, with all due respect, this is just another misconception on the part of some who know little about Texas history and its foundations...sans what they have seen in "western movies". True, Texas was once a Mexican possession, but let me just quote Raymond Gastil in his classic work "Cultural Regions of the United States"
Unlike the Interior Southwest, neither aboriginal Indian nor Spanish-American culture played a central role in the definition of the area. The people of Texas are mostly from the Lower, Upper, and Mountain South and these Southerners easily outnumbered the Spanish speaking and Indian people even before the state joined the Union. Therefore, when we refer to a large Spanish-speaking population in Texas, we are primarily speaking of a relatively recent immigrant population, quite different from the core areas of the Interior Southwest."
Tex-Mex and chili? It is very different from that type of the true SW and Mexico, and most from the true SW and Mexico will shun it as being "fake" Mexican food. And for good reason...as it is sort of a combination of Southern and Mexican. Did you know that that the prototype of the Texas cowboy were of the Old South "cattle drover" tradition...not the Mexican vaquero? Further, that the whole Texas "cowboy and cattle" tradition directly stemmed from the fall of Vicksburg, in 1863?
Sorry, but this superficial aspect matters for very little in the bigger picture (no pun intended). No, it doesnt look "Southern" in the classic sense of "moonlight and magnolias". I have stated this many times before. That is to say, from a topographical point of view, western Texas is probably the "least Southern" of all areas of the Old Confederate states.
But the thing is, the real important aspects in terms of regionalizing, is how the residents perceive themselves and historical and cultural aspects that trancend physiological considerations. For instance, the membership of the Southern Baptist Church in western Texas is on par with that of Mississippi and Alabama. What is known as Southern American English is nowhere stronger spoken and undiluted as in western Texas...
And that even leaves out that most in the western parts of the state, by a clear majority, consider themselves to live in the South and think of themselves as Southerners. Texans first? Of course. That is true all over the state. But it comes across somewhat smug and condecending on your part, to say they are wrong.
Let me take it to a more personal level, ok? I am as much a Southerner as you are and consider myelf so, TreasuredJewel. If you think different? Then say so and why?
But with all that said, I appreciate your civil and courteous points, even if I disagree with them. I always respect a worthy opponent!
And with all that said? I need to call it an evening! Y'all all have a good night!
>>>>>
Sorry TJ...but the fact you were raised in the "Heart of Dixie" does not bestow any special credentials on you to define the South. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you really do fit that definition of Deep South purist!
<<<<<
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,094,873 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel
Richmond Jan. Average Snowfall:
26"
Virginia Beach Jan. Average Snowfall:
18"
Charlotte, NC Jan. Average Snowfall
12"
Columbia,SC Jan. Average Snowfall
4"
Atlanta, GA Jan. Average Snowfall
7"
Birmingham, AL Jan. Average Snowfall
7"
Your point?
Richmond does not get an average of 26 inches of snow in January. It's average annual snowfall is only 13.7 inches. Try about 5 inches in January
Some parts of Virginia do get more than 20 inches, like Roanoke, but those are all in the mountains. Asheville and Knoxville are capable of getting lots of snow, but again, they are in the mountains. The only reason any part of the south gets significant snowfall is by an anomaly, due to being in either the Smokies, Appalachian, or the Blue Ridge Mountains.
Virginia Beach btw, has an average annual snowfall of 8.1 inches...so there is no way in hell the average is 18 inches in January. No part of the south gets that much snow in a month....that's a lot for even a Great Lakes city.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I see this when I hit the Virginia line:
