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View Poll Results: What states are "Southern".
Alabama 8 17.78%
Georgia 3 6.67%
Florida 2 4.44%
Mississippi 7 15.56%
Tennessee 1 2.22%
Kentucky 2 4.44%
North Carolina 7 15.56%
South Carolina 1 2.22%
Virginia 2 4.44%
Louisiana 2 4.44%
Texas 5 11.11%
Oklahoma 1 2.22%
Missouri 0 0%
Maryland 4 8.89%
Delaware 0 0%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-07-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,225,932 times
Reputation: 998

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
For those who have not seen it, here is the study again...as well as a "press release" giving a summation of it. This survey took place over a time-frame of 7 years, involving 14 individual ones (it was done bi-annually), and questioned some 17,000 respondents.

This is just my opinion, of course, but I honestly think this study, which defines "The South" by where a majority of residents consider themselves to live in the South and personally think of themselves as Southerners, is just about the best way to "define" its boundaries (if such a thing is possible at all).

*********************************************

WHERE IS THE SOUTH?

The South has been defined by a great many characteristics, but one of the most interesting definitions is where people believe that they are in the South. A related definition is where the residents consider themselves to be southerners, although this is obviously affected by the presence of non-southern migrants.

Until recently we did not have the data to answer the question of where either of those conditions is met. Since 1992, however, 14 twice-yearly Southern Focus Polls conducted by the Institute for Research in Social Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have asked respondents from the 11 former Confederate states, Kentucky, and Oklahoma "Just for the record, would you say that your community is in the South, or not?" Starting with the third of the series, the same question was asked of smaller samples of respondents from West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, the District of Columbia, and Missouri (all except Missouri included in the Bureau of the Census's "South"). Respondents from the 13 southern states were also asked "Do you consider yourself a Southerner, or not?," while starting with the second survey those from other states were asked "Do you consider yourself or anyone in your family a Southerner?," and if so, whether they considered themselves to be Southerners.

It is clear from these data that if the point is to isolate southerners for study or to compare them to other Americans the definition of the South employed by the Southern Focus Poll (and, incidentally, by the Gallup Organization) makes sense, while the Bureau of the Census definiton does not. We already knew that, of course, but it's good to be able to document it.

--John Shelton Reed

**************

Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)

Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411)

West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C.
7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses)

Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838)
South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791)

West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336)
Thank you for coming to the rescue sir. I couldn't find the survey and thought I might be in dire straits.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:12 AM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,412 posts, read 7,703,380 times
Reputation: 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Every state on you list except for Delaware and Maryland + Missouri.
^^^
This.

I also think the quintessential border state is West Virginia. It is much more up for discussion than Delaware and to a lesser extent Maryland.

*note this author's edit of quote.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,225,932 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
If you want to talk about border states, lets not act like those states are the same statewide. For example:

Missouri isn't a southern state, it's midwestern overall. However, the bootheel is 100% part of the Mid-South.

Virgina is a southern state. However, Northern Virgina near D.C. is very aligned with the Mid-Atlantic.

If you feel like you can group border states completely into one category or another, good luck to you because you have an uphill argument to make. A general grouping is fine, just don't act like there aren't exceptions to the rule. I could make an argument for extreme southern Illinois as part of the south (and a damn good argument I might add). Does that make Illnois a southern state? Hell no it doesn't.
100% agreement. Just because a state doesn't lean 100% towards the region that it's grouped in doesn't mean you still can't generalize it. My take is that unless we truly have a 50-50 argument, it's still possible to categorize something in general. All it takes is 51-49 to make a general grouping IMHO. Is that close? Yes, very...but still enough to conclusively lean one way or the other.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,225,932 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
^^^
This.

I also think the quintessential border state is West Virginia. It is much more up for discussion than Delaware and to a lesser extent Maryland.

*note this author's edit of quote.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:51 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,734 posts, read 6,132,233 times
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The best way to determine whether or not a city is southern is by taking a look at the locals. Not how transient the place is becoming or has already become.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,225,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
The best way to determine whether or not a city is southern is by taking a look at the locals. Not how transient the place is becoming or has already become.
I considered the locals in every single state in question here. Talking to locals from before the Civil War is pretty tough to do, but each state by my criteria is also based on the local natives that are of a reasonable age. Generally, the older the local is, the more reliable of a representation I consider them to be. Florida is the south to me for this very reason....Florida experienced such a massive influx of Northerners and Latinos that they have essentially diluted the state's traditional Southern culture. And there is no other reason for Florida to be acting the way it acts except for these migrants...Florida is too far away from other states for locals to naturally have Northern leanings, and while it is close Latin America, it is still part of the United States. Florida legitimately seceded in the Civil War and was heavily Southern well into the latter-half of the 20th century. I still consider Florida southern in any case, because less than half a century isn't nearly enough to completely phase out its underlying culture...you can still find many locals around all of Florida who are as Southern as anyone in Georgia. However, I see Florida in the long run ultimately losing its Southern identity as long as the tourist industry flourishes, the natives of the Baby Boomers and Greatest Generations begin dying out, more retirees from out of state continue settling in there, and more Latin immigration continues takes place. Florida has become so weakly influenced by Southern culture that it no longer makes sense to call it part of the Deep South, which it once very much was.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,081 posts, read 2,897,290 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
100% agreement. Just because a state doesn't lean 100% towards the region that it's grouped in doesn't mean you still can't generalize it. My take is that unless we truly have a 50-50 argument, it's still possible to categorize something in general. All it takes is 51-49 to make a general grouping IMHO. Is that close? Yes, very...but still enough to conclusively lean one way or the other.
I'm originally from Southeast Missouri and I consider myself nothing but southern. However I realize that much of the Missouri's people are quite midwestern. Doesn't bother me a bit but I can honestly say when push comes to shove that I don't have much in common with most people from Missouri, especially the two major urban areas of the state. I have more in common with people from Western Kentucky and Northwest Tennessee than probably 90% of the people from Missouri.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
1,446 posts, read 2,287,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)

Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411)

West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C.
7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses)

Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838)
South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791)

West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336)

I have seen this study posted before, and I think this is about as definitive an answer as we can come up with.

It pretty much mirrors my expectations, except I'm a little surprised at how many Oklahomans say they are southern and their community is in the south. Everything else seems about where I would have guessed.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,225,932 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by po-boy View Post
I have seen this study posted before, and I think this is about as definitive an answer as we can come up with.

It pretty much mirrors my expectations, except I'm a little surprised at how many Oklahomans say they are southern and their community is in the south. Everything else seems about where I would have guessed.
I for one was sort of shocked about West Virginia having only a 25% identification rate. i can certainly say that except for the northern and eastern panhandles, it's pretty tough for me to associate WV with anything but the South. Only 84 were interviewed, so maybe a bigger sampling would have given us something else. But I guess WV's status in the Civil War could have aided in the percentages. That was the only state in which I would do a recount if I had to.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,225,932 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
I'm originally from Southeast Missouri and I consider myself nothing but southern. However I realize that much of the Missouri's people are quite midwestern. Doesn't bother me a bit but I can honestly say when push comes to shove that I don't have much in common with most people from Missouri, especially the two major urban areas of the state. I have more in common with people from Western Kentucky and Northwest Tennessee than probably 90% of the people from Missouri.
Well, one thing we do have in common is that we agree and appear to have similar points of view on many things and are from the same state. So even if we don't have much culturally in common, I still consider you one of the better friends I've met on here.
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