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Old 05-04-2016, 12:08 AM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 776,667 times
Reputation: 353

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About the map: Yeah, Labov's maps you can find online aren't the ones included in ANAE so they're not his best, but they're not inaccurate either. Their purpose was to show major isoglosses like the Southern Shift. Maps in the ANAE itself show much more details like the extent of the shift. Also, it should be noted Labov's map is a professional publication. I respect and admire Aschmann's work but one, it's primarily based off of the ANAE to begin with, and two it's a hobby, as he himself says.

And yes, Lingusitically, Baltimore and DC absolutely fit in more with the north than the south in the modern day, and Richmond is undoubtedly southern. They may share some features like oʊ-fronting and to some extent aʊ-raising, but Richmond has the Southern Shift, ɔɪ→ɔː, ɔː→ɔo, and other typical Southern dialectal features not found in Midland speech.
D.C. HAD a southern accent, you can hear vesitges of it in older speakers but modern day DC and its suburbs is pretty solidly Midland. Baltimore is Atlantic Midland - it has notable southern influences but it's still most closely related to the dialect of Philadelphia and surrounding areas.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,056,837 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Richmond is a lot more than 45 minutes from DC.
He said metro and it is. Done it plenty of times. But if you want to take it DC, double it.
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:56 PM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 8 days ago)
 
1,223 posts, read 580,757 times
Reputation: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
About the map: Yeah, Labov's maps you can find online aren't the ones included in ANAE so they're not his best, but they're not inaccurate either. Their purpose was to show major isoglosses like the Southern Shift. Maps in the ANAE itself show much more details like the extent of the shift. Also, it should be noted Labov's map is a professional publication. I respect and admire Aschmann's work but one, it's primarily based off of the ANAE to begin with, and two it's a hobby, as he himself says.

And yes, Lingusitically, Baltimore and DC absolutely fit in more with the north than the south in the modern day, and Richmond is undoubtedly southern. They may share some features like oʊ-fronting and to some extent aʊ-raising, but Richmond has the Southern Shift, ɔɪ→ɔː, ɔː→ɔo, and other typical Southern dialectal features not found in Midland speech.
D.C. HAD a southern accent, you can hear vesitges of it in older speakers but modern day DC and its suburbs is pretty solidly Midland. Baltimore is Atlantic Midland - it has notable southern influences but it's still most closely related to the dialect of Philadelphia and surrounding areas.
Thx for sharing and explaining. That map that U146 uses doesn't even mention New Orleans' accent so I scoff at it and see Aschmann's map as something better and less dated.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:22 PM
 
1,112 posts, read 695,578 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
About the map: Yeah, Labov's maps you can find online aren't the ones included in ANAE so they're not his best, but they're not inaccurate either. Their purpose was to show major isoglosses like the Southern Shift. Maps in the ANAE itself show much more details like the extent of the shift. Also, it should be noted Labov's map is a professional publication. I respect and admire Aschmann's work but one, it's primarily based off of the ANAE to begin with, and two it's a hobby, as he himself says.

D.C. HAD a southern accent, you can hear vesitges of it in older speakers but modern day DC and its suburbs is pretty solidly Midland. Baltimore is Atlantic Midland - it has notable southern influences but it's still most closely related to the dialect of Philadelphia and surrounding areas.
OK, I'm confused. DC doesn't really have any accent... it would be strange to group it with the true midland dialects in Maryland like the Frederick area accent. I don't understand how it could be placed in the region if everyone's accent varies there.

Baltimore is a little less transplanty and so the local accent is there. Yeah, it is where the especially Philly features (tense-lax, th=d, yous, dark "l") end in Maryland.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:29 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 776,667 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by ialmostforgot View Post
OK, I'm confused. DC doesn't really have any accent... it would be strange to group it with the true midland dialects in Maryland like the Frederick area accent. I don't understand how it could be placed in the region if everyone's accent varies there.

Baltimore is a little less transplanty and so the local accent is there. Yeah, it is where the especially Philly features (tense-lax, th=d, yous, dark "l") end in Maryland.
Today the most prevalent in DC is probably a "General American" accent, which resembles Midland more so than any other region. You're correct in being hesitant to accept DC as Midland in the same vein as the Midland dialects native to Maryland, such as Frederick or much of the Eastern Shore, because General American tends to resemble Midwestern varieties of Midland in particular, not the east coast varieties.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Ohio, USA
1,085 posts, read 1,346,585 times
Reputation: 970
Core Mid-Atlantic States: New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey

Lower Mid-Atlantic states (has southern influences but not fully Southern): Delaware, Maryland, and West Virginia
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,226,512 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyFries View Post
Core Mid-Atlantic States: New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey

Lower Mid-Atlantic states (has southern influences but not fully Southern): Delaware, Maryland, and West Virginia
West Virginia isn't Mid-Atlantic. In fact, it may not be fully Southern but is majority Southern. At least 70% of the state is culturally, linguistically, and demographically Southern.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:10 PM
 
1,112 posts, read 695,578 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyFries View Post
Core Mid-Atlantic States: New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey

Lower Mid-Atlantic states (has southern influences but not fully Southern): Delaware, Maryland, and West Virginia
I tend to agree with this .
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:29 PM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 8 days ago)
 
1,223 posts, read 580,757 times
Reputation: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyFries View Post
Core Mid-Atlantic States: New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey

Lower Mid-Atlantic states (has southern influences but not fully Southern): Delaware, Maryland, and West Virginia
Good list. I think all of the VA's largest metros (Hampton Roads, RVA, Charlottesville, and of course the NoVa region) are definitely lower Mid-Atlantic (yes, U146 I know you disagree).

One general question for anyone is why is DE considered Southern anything....it's basically PA jr. Basically, I feel about DE how U146 feel about MD but add in history and architecture.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:00 PM
 
781 posts, read 1,094,509 times
Reputation: 609
U146, Nstl, St Louisian, and all the other names he or she has had seems to get worse with each name change lmao!
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