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Old 03-15-2017, 08:26 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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The mid-Atlantic has nothing to do with north vs south, that point is moot here. New Jersey is the geographic north and is mid-Atlantic, Maryland is in the census designated south and is also mid-Atlantic. It is a sub region that is the mid point, therefore it's crossover into both census designated regions.
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:41 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
That... that's misguided.

By that logic any state should be southern.

Maryland and Delaware are not southern. Louisiana is southern South Carolina is southern. Tennessee is southern. Texas is southern. Not Maryland or Delaware.

Which of these two states is Maryland more like, Georgia or NY?

Which of these two cities is Baltimore more connected to, NYC or Raleigh?

Why should the south be defined loosely when all other regions have to be defined so tightly?
I think the reason Maryland is complicated is because Maryland used to be a Southern State and Colony. Some say it still is or at least partially is. I tend to think of Maryland as part of the Northeast these days (it fits better IMO) but I can see the Southern argument as well.

You can still see signs of Maryland being a Southern State. Maryland belongs to organizations like the Southern Regional Education Board ( About - Southern Regional Education Board ). She also has strong county government which is similar to most of the South and is different from most other Northeast states where the local government is stronger. Some Northeast states have in fact abolished their county governments completely.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:24 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,744 posts, read 6,146,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I think the reason Maryland is complicated is because Maryland used to be a Southern State and Colony. Some say it still is or at least partially is. I tend to think of Maryland as part of the Northeast these days (it fits better IMO) but I can see the Southern argument as well.

You can still see signs of Maryland being a Southern State. Maryland belongs to organizations like the Southern Regional Education Board ( About - Southern Regional Education Board ). She also has strong county government which is similar to most of the South and is different from most other Northeast states where the local government is stronger. Some Northeast states have in fact abolished their county governments completely.
Little known fact: many southern states had the local government model: NC, SC, and AR had, or currently have townships. There could be more, but those are the states that I know of at the moment.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:28 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,744 posts, read 6,146,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
That... that's misguided.

By that logic any state should be southern.

Maryland and Delaware are not southern. Louisiana is southern South Carolina is southern. Tennessee is southern. Texas is southern. Not Maryland or Delaware.

Which of these two states is Maryland more like, Georgia or NY?

Which of these two cities is Baltimore more connected to, NYC or Raleigh?

Why should the south be defined loosely when all other regions have to be defined so tightly?
It's more so the Northeast is defined tightly, and all other regions are divided loosely. Also, what connections do Baltimore have with NYC? I'd say Baltimore is more connected with Raleigh in the sense that many most black people in Maryland can trace their roots back to NC. For example, 3 of my grandparents are from Raleigh. The Northeast is more homogeneous, while the south is more diverse geographically, economically, politically, demographically, historically..Etc.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:33 AM
 
3,223 posts, read 1,555,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Little known fact: many southern states had the local government model: NC, SC, and AR had, or currently have townships. There could be more, but those are the states that I know of at the moment.
Pennsylvania has Townships for virtually every Borough and has Villages. But only one Town in PA. It's near me. A College town called Bloomsburg. Its sigh entering it reads... The ONLY Town in PA.

I don't think having tons to Townships. Makes PA Southern??
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:28 AM
 
627 posts, read 273,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Most people would say that MD does represent the south historically; however, culturally, it may be a little different compared to other southern states, but is nothing like northern states. That speaks to the diversity of the south, though.
Eh the biggest thing to southern history is the Civil War, which Maryland didn't secede in. Culturally it is not the south.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:43 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,166,272 times
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I said this before years ago if I look at this thread The Mid Atlantic I the southern portion of the North East with New England being the northern portion.


I tend to believe its New York and south to whatever today represent the Northeast which is inching south over time.


I would probably say NOVA to New York state today but many can argue about where


I can say having grown up in Philly I never questioned whether I lived in the Mid Atlantic, was always a given to me.


To me I actually think NJ is the center of the Mid Atlantic though some argue MD is - maybe we should take the aerage and say DE is...
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:00 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,909,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Little known fact: many southern states had the local government model: NC, SC, and AR had, or currently have townships. There could be more, but those are the states that I know of at the moment.
And I believe that North Carolina has villages.

But Kode, I am not talking about states simply having local governments, because all states have do. All states have at least cities if nothing else.

What I mean is every single inch of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Massachusetts is incorporated into a local government and most of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine as well. Sometimes they are incorporated twice like New York and Vermont type villages or Connecticut type boroughs which are inside incorporated towns.

You generally do not find that in most Southern and Western states while parts of the Midwest seems to be more similar to the Northeast. There is much variance among the states. Check out the following article on Minor Civil Division - notice the Northeast and Midwest tend to be divided by Townships (Towns) while the South and West tend to be divided by Counties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_civil_division (Minor Civil Division)

A minor civil division (MCD) is a term used by the United States Census Bureau for primary governmental and/or administrative divisions of a county, such as a civil township, precinct, or magisterial district. As of 2010, MCDs exist in 29 states and the District of Columbia. In New York and New England, they are towns.
As of 1990, all or many of the MCDs in 20 states were general-purpose governmental units: Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wisconsin. Most of these MCDs are legally designated as towns or townships. The type of government may range from inoperative, to weak governmental authority, to incorporated municipalities. Since MCDs appear in a different category than incorporated places, this has caused some confusion in states where the MCDs have strong governments, such as in Michigan, the New England states, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.
In states that do not have MCDs, mostly in the South and the West, the Census Bureau designates Census County Divisions (CCDs). In states that use MCDs, when any portion of the state is not covered by an MCD, the Census Bureau creates additional entities as unorganized territories, that it treats as equivalent to MCDs for statistical purposes. For several decennial censuses prior to the 2010 census, 28 states used MCDs, but in 2008, Tennessee changed from CCDs to MCDs, bringing the total number of MCD states to 29.[1]
In states that use MCDs and border a coast, territorial sea, or the Great Lakes, the Census Bureau assigns a default FIPS county subdivision code of 00000 and an ANSI code of eight zeroes to areas of water that are not legally included in a county subdivision
.
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:13 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,909,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Pennsylvania has Townships for virtually every Borough and has Villages. But only one Town in PA. It's near me. A College town called Bloomsburg. Its sigh entering it reads... The ONLY Town in PA.

I don't think having tons to Townships. Makes PA Southern??
I think New Jersey has Townships but one Town also. New Jersey also has Boroughs and Villages. Pennsylvania and New Jersey have a bit of everything lol.

Basically Townships and Towns are the same thing, just different names. There are differences from one state to another but the main difference is that some states have Civil Townships (Towns) that have stronger powers while in other states the Townships are weaker and exist only on paper (like Survey Townships in Western states).

Pennsylvania, along with 19 other states has Civil Townships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_...eastern_states
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,122 posts, read 1,309,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Western Urbanite View Post
I think the NYC metro is sort of its own thing in between New England and the Mid Atlantic. And New York as a state doesn't seem to fit into either.
I've always thought of us to be in the MidAtlantic, but I see what you mean though. We're right at the end there. Everyone can agree that NYC is not New England, but we're right next to it and our Metro does actually extend into New England a little bit (CT).

I guess in a way we are kind of a transition area.

Last edited by That_One_Guy; 03-16-2017 at 07:31 AM..
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