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so east texas can pass as deep south but brownsville texas isnt in the deep south? When its south of nearly 99% of everyone else? Unless you're arguing culture.
Your last link is pretty much what I've grown to understand while living in NJ. For me, NJ is defiantly NE, and it is Mid-Atlantic.
Yeah, when I was growing up (in VA), we learned in school that the Mid-Atlantic was NY, PA, NJ. MD and DE were lumped with the South. I guess I've modified my definition of the Mid-Atlantic since, at the insistence of a great many MD and DE residents who claim they are not part of the South.
Yeah, when I was growing up (in VA), we learned in school that the Mid-Atlantic was NY, PA, NJ. MD and DE were lumped with the South. I guess I've modified my definition of the Mid-Atlantic since, at the insistence of a great many MD and DE residents who claim they are not part of the South.
What school did you guys go to where they taught you that? I grew up with Philadelphia shoved down our throat in Wilmington DE, looking down the street at refineries and New Jersey. Maybe they couldn't bare to feed us that bull.
The census counts people. They conclude that most of the population of DE is in a northeastern metro area, yet that the state is in the south. They need to pick one.
The quintessential Mid-Atlantic town is Wilmington, DE. Major seaport, smack dab between NYC and DC. I would say it is the link between both definitions of Mid-Atlantic (Middle Colonies/States - NY, PA, NJ, DE, and the newer MD DC VA DE.)
Even so that AAA's Mid-Atlantic headquarters are in Wilmington, DE.
so east texas can pass as deep south but brownsville texas isnt in the deep south? When its south of nearly 99% of everyone else? Unless you're arguing culture.
As already mentioned. Brownsville is Deep South, Texas. Culturally, it's not only different from the South that we know it as, but it's pretty much different than most of the state.
Culturally? Well, that is a bit of a different critter! East Texas is the western most extension of the "Deep South" in that particular realm. Depending on just how one defines "East Texas" then parts of it are more classic "Old South Deep South" than upper mountain areas of totally Deep South states like Alabama and Georgia....and rival that of any other areas of those states considered Deep South in terms of basic history and culture. So I don't share my fellow Texan's hesitation in that regard.
Hell, there are even older areas of large cities like Dallas and Houston, even San Antonio and Ft. Worth, where -- if parachuted in blind from another part of the country-- one would not know they were not in Mississippi or Alabama if the reference point was the general outlay and culture and architecture and "feel".
C'mon Spade, you can't disagree with that!
LOL. No that's not what I was meaning but I didn't specify so there was some confusion. What I was saying is that East Texas rarely mentions itself as being part of the Deep South even though they share the same cultural patterns, characteristics, customs, and topography as the Deep South or basically, Lower South. Where as in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina, you see signs and billboards; and hear it in lyrics in songs about them being in the Deep South. You rarely get that in East Texas.
Virtually, nowhere in Texas, West and South of East Texas, mentions itself as Deep South which makes up the majority of the state. At least in Central Texas where I grew up. That is why I can't include Texas as a whole with the Deep South states. But just Texas or Western South. It's own version of the extended South.
Even in Houston they rarely if ever refer to themselves as Deep South. Don't know about Beaumont. But I think they are like Lake Charles and Lafayette more than they are like Shreveport and Monroe. As far as the bigger cities, I do agree with you there though Houston has more parts that look like Louisiana cities. Some South Dallas areas do resemble the Southern Arkansas, Mississippi, and Northern Louisiana areas. Same type of apartments with the close hangers and everything. I've seen it with my eyes. But again and you may not believe this, you can see this same type of development in Miami and Washington D.C (though to a much lesser extent for DC as it makes up a small part of the city).
LOL. No that's not what I was meaning but I didn't specify so there was some confusion. What I was saying is that East Texas rarely mentions itself as being part of the Deep South even though they share the same cultural patterns, characteristics, customs, and topography as the Deep South or basically, Lower South. Where as in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina, you see signs and billboards; and hear it in lyrics in songs about them being in the Deep South. You rarely get that in East Texas.
Virtually, nowhere in Texas, West and South of East Texas, mentions itself as Deep South which makes up the majority of the state. At least in Central Texas where I grew up. That is why I can't include Texas as a whole with the Deep South states. But just Texas or Western South. It's own version of the extended South.
Even in Houston they rarely if ever refer to themselves as Deep South. Don't know about Beaumont. But I think they are like Lake Charles and Lafayette more than they are like Shreveport and Monroe. As far as the bigger cities, I do agree with you there though Houston has more parts that look like Louisiana cities. Some South Dallas areas do resemble the Southern Arkansas, Mississippi, and Northern Louisiana areas. Same type of apartments with the close hangers and everything. I've seen it with my eyes. But again and you may not believe this, you can see this same type of development in Miami and Washington D.C (though to a much lesser extent for DC as it makes up a small part of the city).
Ok Spade, that does clarify things quite a bit! Thanks!
We both agree that Texas -- as a whole -- is not a "Deep South" state. No question. And that East Texas is its western most extension. Hell, if it had been cut off to stand alone (ala' Texas' right to divide itself into seperate states), it would easily have become a typical Deep South state.
The advertizing? That is an interesting one.... I DO recall a Texas Tourist Bureau campaign back in the 1990's which touted East Texas as "Old/Deep South" (perhaps to try and draw some tourist bucks from Mississippi or Alabama? LOL) And I know (from both research and personal experience) that a noteable number of business concerns in East Texas incorporate "Deep South" as part of their name.
But all in all, I wouldn't disagree with you on that aspect. For one thing, East Texas is Texas, which in turn means its advertizing itself might be diluted by way of overall advertizing of Texas itself...which we both agree is not a Deep South state. At the same time though, especially in places (Jefferson is the first to come to mind), the "Old South" ambiance is heavily touted locally in terms of business/historical attractions...
The Mid Atlantic region coming from a person in the deep south is NY, NJ, PA. DE, WVA, MD, & VA. NC is sometimes grouped in with the region. And before someone argues with me Mid Atlantic does not mean northeastern in culture.
LOL. No that's not what I was meaning but I didn't specify so there was some confusion. What I was saying is that East Texas rarely mentions itself as being part of the Deep South even though they share the same cultural patterns, characteristics, customs, and topography as the Deep South or basically, Lower South. Where as in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina, you see signs and billboards; and hear it in lyrics in songs about them being in the Deep South. You rarely get that in East Texas.
Virtually, nowhere in Texas, West and South of East Texas, mentions itself as Deep South which makes up the majority of the state. At least in Central Texas where I grew up. That is why I can't include Texas as a whole with the Deep South states. But just Texas or Western South. It's own version of the extended South.
Even in Houston they rarely if ever refer to themselves as Deep South. Don't know about Beaumont. But I think they are like Lake Charles and Lafayette more than they are like Shreveport and Monroe. As far as the bigger cities, I do agree with you there though Houston has more parts that look like Louisiana cities. Some South Dallas areas do resemble the Southern Arkansas, Mississippi, and Northern Louisiana areas. Same type of apartments with the close hangers and everything. I've seen it with my eyes. But again and you may not believe this, you can see this same type of development in Miami and Washington D.C (though to a much lesser extent for DC as it makes up a small part of the city).
Northern Georgia isn't "Deep South" in much the way that Mississippi, central & south Georgia, western/central/southern Alabama, and middle and low-country South Carolina is.
In fact, Northern Georgia, Northeast Alabama, and the Upstate of South Carolina are in states many think of as "Deep South", but they don't really have the traits of areas of the "Deep South". At least not what most people think of them.
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I DO recall a Texas Tourist Bureau campaign back in the 1990's which touted East Texas as "Old/Deep South" (perhaps to try and draw some tourist bucks from Mississippi or Alabama? LOL) And I know (from both research and personal experience) that a noteable number of business concerns in East Texas incorporate "Deep South" as part of their name. 
