Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,540,027 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue
It's more so the Northeast is defined tightly, and all other regions are divided loosely. Also, what connections do Baltimore have with NYC? I'd say Baltimore is more connected with Raleigh in the sense that many most black people in Maryland can trace their roots back to NC. For example, 3 of my grandparents are from Raleigh. The Northeast is more homogeneous, while the south is more diverse geographically, economically, politically, demographically, historically..Etc.
You actually just reiterated my point while simultaneously missing it. I am genuinely impressed.
Fair enough on the black families though. However, Baltimore has many economic and familial ties northwards as well. In fact I'd argue that more so than either NYC or Raleigh it is closely affiliated with Philadelphia.
But Kode, I am not talking about states simply having local governments, because all states have do. All states have at least cities if nothing else.
What I mean is every single inch of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Massachusetts is incorporated into a local government and most of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine as well. Sometimes they are incorporated twice like New York and Vermont type villages or Connecticut type boroughs which are inside incorporated towns.
You generally do not find that in most Southern and Western states while parts of the Midwest seems to be more similar to the Northeast. There is much variance among the states. Check out the following article on Minor Civil Division - notice the Northeast and Midwest tend to be divided by Townships (Towns) while the South and West tend to be divided by Counties.
A minor civil division (MCD) is a term used by the United States Census Bureau for primary governmental and/or administrative divisions of a county, such as a civil township, precinct, or magisterial district. As of 2010, MCDs exist in 29 states and the District of Columbia. In New York and New England, they are towns. As of 1990, all or many of the MCDs in 20 states were general-purpose governmental units: Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wisconsin. Most of these MCDs are legally designated as towns or townships. The type of government may range from inoperative, to weak governmental authority, to incorporated municipalities. Since MCDs appear in a different category than incorporated places, this has caused some confusion in states where the MCDs have strong governments, such as in Michigan, the New England states, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania. In states that do not have MCDs, mostly in the South and the West, the Census Bureau designates Census County Divisions (CCDs). In states that use MCDs, when any portion of the state is not covered by an MCD, the Census Bureau creates additional entities as unorganized territories, that it treats as equivalent to MCDs for statistical purposes. For several decennial censuses prior to the 2010 census, 28 states used MCDs, but in 2008, Tennessee changed from CCDs to MCDs, bringing the total number of MCD states to 29.[1]
In states that use MCDs and border a coast, territorial sea, or the Great Lakes, the Census Bureau assigns a default FIPS county subdivision code of 00000 and an ANSI code of eight zeroes to areas of water that are not legally included in a county subdivision.
I find the different break downs of state's local government to me interesting. For example, NJ's 5 types local government are completely separate. A Village, town, or borough are separate entities unlike any other northern states. PA, which is most similar to other states have boroughs inside of townships. New York has Towns and villages inside of them (some villages residing in multiple towns). New England is mostly towns, weak county governments. Midwest has a ton of survey townships, I'm assuming due to the sparsity of the population in many of the states.
Maryland has two counties ( Howard, Baltimore) with no Incorporated places within them.
You actually just reiterated my point while simultaneously missing it. I am genuinely impressed.
Fair enough on the black families though. However, Baltimore has many economic and familial ties northwards as well. In fact I'd argue that more so than either NYC or Raleigh it is closely affiliated with Philadelphia.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,540,027 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue
What's Baltimore's affiliation with Philly?
Commuters, transplants, businesses, historical ties (railroad companies; civil war ties), both essentially being the reason Wilmington ever grew to its current size, a common industrial history and a handful of minor regional similarities.
I find the different break downs of state's local government to me interesting. For example, NJ's 5 types local government are completely separate. A Village, town, or borough are separate entities unlike any other northern states. PA, which is most similar to other states have boroughs inside of townships. New York has Towns and villages inside of them (some villages residing in multiple towns). New England is mostly towns, weak county governments. Midwest has a ton of survey townships, I'm assuming due to the sparsity of the population in many of the states.
Maryland has two counties ( Howard, Baltimore) with no Incorporated places within them.
Yes, me too. Your last comment is amazing! Baltimore County is right outside Baltimore and Howard County is between Baltimore and Washington and they both have no incorporated places inside them! I am guessing that Baltimore County and Howard must have strong local powers including zoning. Counties here in New York (and I assume the other Northeast states) do not control zoning, the local governments do.
According to Wikipedia, there are 157 incorporated communities in Maryland. Compare that to 565 in the smaller state of New Jersey.
Most of Maryland is unincorporated, that is definitely NOT a Northeastern trait. The incorporated areas are divided into cities, towns and villages. But the towns are NOT New York/New England type towns or Pennsylvania/New Jersey type townships that cover large areas (often 30 to 50 square miles or more). Instead they appear to be like small cities that voluntarily decided to incorporate.
ALL of New Jersey, like most Northeastern states, is incorporated. If you look at the Wiki map you can see the community boundaries - the larger ones are usually townships and the smaller ones are usually cities and boroughs. You can see that the entire state is covered by one local government or another.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,540,027 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative
Yes, me too. Your last comment is amazing! Baltimore County is right outside Baltimore and Howard County is between Baltimore and Washington and they both have no incorporated places inside them! I am guessing that Baltimore County and Howard must have strong local powers including zoning. Counties here in New York (and I assume the other Northeast states) do not control zoning, the local governments do.
According to Wikipedia, there are 157 incorporated communities in Maryland. Compare that to 565 in the smaller state of New Jersey.
Most of Maryland is unincorporated, that is definitely NOT a Northeastern trait. The incorporated areas are divided into cities, towns and villages. But the towns are NOT New York/New England type towns or Pennsylvania/New Jersey type townships that cover large areas (often 30 to 50 square miles or more). Instead they appear to be like small cities that voluntarily decided to incorporate.
ALL of New Jersey, like most Northeastern states, is incorporated. If you look at the Wiki map you can see the community boundaries - the larger ones are usually townships and the smaller ones are usually cities and boroughs. You can see that the entire state is covered by one local government or another.
Thing about this though is it means basically nothing on the people level. Arguing about how a state is run seems like a last resort to support dividing regions in a biased fashion.
On the street level, from person to person, this makes little to no difference. The towns of DIX and Montour in NY includes the villages of Watkins Glen and Montour Falls. But nobody says "hey, let's go to the town of DIX!", they say, "I'm going to Watkins Glen."
That stuff is just bureaucracy to everybody and means little in terms of the common culture.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
