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View Poll Results: What states make up the north?
Maine 183 91.96%
New Hampshire 182 91.46%
Vermont 183 91.96%
Massachusetts 179 89.95%
Rhode Island 179 89.95%
Connecticut 179 89.95%
New York 182 91.46%
Pennsylvania 170 85.43%
New Jersey 171 85.93%
Maryland 100 50.25%
Delaware 106 53.27%
West Virginia (even if just in part, specify in comment) 42 21.11%
Ohio 129 64.82%
Indiana 115 57.79%
Michigan 152 76.38%
Illinois 127 63.82%
Wisconsin 150 75.38%
Minnesota 152 76.38%
Iowa 115 57.79%
Missouri 51 25.63%
North Dakota 130 65.33%
South Dakota 122 61.31%
Nebraska 82 41.21%
Kansas 47 23.62%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-12-2011, 10:11 PM
 
400 posts, read 869,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
Listen, I never said that the accent is like the one you find in Minnesota. However, there are southern sounding people in Kansas. A friend of mine during college, from Olathe, Kansas, sounded very southern. During my travels, I've come into contact with Kansans, and a number of them sounded very southern. Of course, it's not a majority, but I have never heard southern-sounding people in Nebraska. Politically, they are similar.
You stated flat-out that "Kansas is much different from Nebraska", which is completely false. Kansas and Nebraska are very much alike. They have been sister states since they were both created in the 1850s from the Kansas-Nebraska Act. They have always had a similar culture, geography, climate, people, landscape, politics, etc. They are like North and South Dakota. To say that Kansas and Nebraska are much different from each other is just an incorrect statement.

The accent is similar in Kansas and Nebraska, regardless of people that you know. People move from different places. Someone from Olathe, Kansas isn't necessarily born and raised in Kansas. He could be from the south or his ancestry could be from the south.

Olathe, Kansas has a generic Midland accent. Anyone with a southern accent there would stick out and would not be speaking with a native regional accent. The average person in Olathe talks exactly like the average person in Omaha, Lincoln, Grand Island or any city in Nebraska. Which is to say: a generic Midland accent, not a northern accent.
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:03 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,007,201 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
For the most part? I think around St. Louis, KC, and north of the Missouri River it feels pretty northern. Chicago's accent isn't the standard of "northern"...it's a great lakes accent. Although, St. Louis is influenced by the "Inland North" in terms of dialect. I definitely would call the state outright Northern, but I would say it is Northern with Southern influences to a greater extent than the rest of the Midwest.
I wouldnt call the rest of the state Northern. The accent is Midland, which can be considered Northern, but when compared to the accent you hear in St. Louis, it doesn't seem very Northern. The accent in St. Louis is part of the "Northern Cities Vowel Shift" You're right, Chicago isn't the standard Northern accent, but that's where St. Louis gets its Northern influence from (in terms of accent.) If you look at a detailed American accent map, (like this one) you'll see St. Louis connecting to Chicago. Also, St. Louis, and a few other areas of the state are dominated by Catholics, while the rest of the state is mostly Southern Baptist. It's hard to call the rest of the state Northern when most of the population speaks with a Midland accent and are Southern Baptists. Missouri is Midwestern, but not Northern. St. Louis might be an exception to that.

Last edited by Smtchll; 11-13-2011 at 03:13 AM..
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,740,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I wouldnt call the rest of the state Northern. The accent is Midland, which can be considered Northern, but when compared to the accent you hear in St. Louis, it doesn't seem very Northern. The accent in St. Louis is part of the "Northern Cities Vowel Shift" You're right, Chicago isn't the standard Northern accent, but that's where St. Louis gets its Northern influence from (in terms of accent.) If you look at a detailed American accent map, (like this one) you'll see St. Louis connecting to Chicago. Also, St. Louis, and a few other areas of the state are dominated by Catholics, while the rest of the state is mostly Southern Baptist. It's hard to call the rest of the state Northern when most of the population speaks with a Midland accent and are Southern Baptists. Missouri is Midwestern, but not Northern. St. Louis might be an exception to that.
In my opinion it's a northern state populated by southerners.

Same as how Florida is a southern state populated by northerners.

Geographically Missouri sticks out into the north a long ways.
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:21 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,581,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
You're mistaking a "South Midland" accent with a Southern accent. That accent extends as far west as Eastern Colorado. People in Kansas sound nothing like people from Oklahoma...now that is a southern accent. Nebraska is where the general american accent is.
I'm a southerner and hear southern accents all the time. I can't mistake one when I hear it.
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:28 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,581,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Earth View Post
You stated flat-out that "Kansas is much different from Nebraska", which is completely false. Kansas and Nebraska are very much alike. They have been sister states since they were both created in the 1850s from the Kansas-Nebraska Act. They have always had a similar culture, geography, climate, people, landscape, politics, etc. They are like North and South Dakota. To say that Kansas and Nebraska are much different from each other is just an incorrect statement.

The accent is similar in Kansas and Nebraska, regardless of people that you know. People move from different places. Someone from Olathe, Kansas isn't necessarily born and raised in Kansas. He could be from the south or his ancestry could be from the south.

Olathe, Kansas has a generic Midland accent. Anyone with a southern accent there would stick out and would not be speaking with a native regional accent. The average person in Olathe talks exactly like the average person in Omaha, Lincoln, Grand Island or any city in Nebraska. Which is to say: a generic Midland accent, not a northern accent.
Some of you are putting words in my mouth. I have never contended that Kansas and Nebraska are different on anything other than accents, and even then, I've said that most people don't speak with a southern accent in Kansas. I merely said that there are quite a number of people in Kansas who do.

Why do you feel the need to defend Kansas against being labeled as having people who speak with a southern accent. It does border Oklahoma, and a majority of Oklahomans speak with a southern accent. Don't you think that there might be a section of Kansas, or some people in Kansas who speak with a southern accent?

By the way, the standard accent in Kansas does NOT sound northern. It sounds more or less like general American. It doesn't sound northern at all. However, you do hear people with a northern sounding accent in Nebraska. Perhaps not a majority, but a substantial portion, just as you would in Iowa. A northern accent is something you might hear in Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, Michigan, northern Illinois, northern Ohio, New York, northern New Jersey, New England, etc.
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:21 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,976,124 times
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There are some parts of Southern Kansas that probably don't have equivalents in Nebraska. Cherokee County, Kansas isn't too far from Arkansas and is 16% Southern Baptist. There might be some "Ozark" influence in the southern parts of the Missouri border.

I don't know if they're especially different, but they're not completely identical.
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:18 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,913,467 times
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Given that not even one state has 100% votes, I would say that a couple of people did not know they could vote for more than one state. I made that mistake on other threads myself.
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:51 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,007,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
In my opinion it's a northern state populated by southerners.

Same as how Florida is a southern state populated by northerners.

Geographically Missouri sticks out into the north a long ways.
I dont know about it being geographically Northern because Virginia and Kentucky (almost) go just as far North as Missouri and they're considered Southern.
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,638 posts, read 27,073,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I wouldnt call the rest of the state Northern. The accent is Midland, which can be considered Northern, but when compared to the accent you hear in St. Louis, it doesn't seem very Northern. The accent in St. Louis is part of the "Northern Cities Vowel Shift" You're right, Chicago isn't the standard Northern accent, but that's where St. Louis gets its Northern influence from (in terms of accent.) If you look at a detailed American accent map, (like this one) you'll see St. Louis connecting to Chicago. Also, St. Louis, and a few other areas of the state are dominated by Catholics, while the rest of the state is mostly Southern Baptist. It's hard to call the rest of the state Northern when most of the population speaks with a Midland accent and are Southern Baptists. Missouri is Midwestern, but not Northern. St. Louis might be an exception to that.
I've seen that map before in the Texas forum. Most of us thought it was inaccurate regarding Texas. Most of Texas accent is inland South instead of lowland. Dallas especially is lowland South.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,230,797 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I wouldnt call the rest of the state Northern. The accent is Midland, which can be considered Northern, but when compared to the accent you hear in St. Louis, it doesn't seem very Northern. The accent in St. Louis is part of the "Northern Cities Vowel Shift" You're right, Chicago isn't the standard Northern accent, but that's where St. Louis gets its Northern influence from (in terms of accent.) If you look at a detailed American accent map, (like this one) you'll see St. Louis connecting to Chicago. Also, St. Louis, and a few other areas of the state are dominated by Catholics, while the rest of the state is mostly Southern Baptist. It's hard to call the rest of the state Northern when most of the population speaks with a Midland accent and are Southern Baptists. Missouri is Midwestern, but not Northern. St. Louis might be an exception to that.
There's no evidence to show though that St. Louis gets its accent from from Chicago...there is no arrow pointing from Chicago to St. Louis...it just shows a corridor not specificifying any direction. If you listen to a native St. Louis accent and a native Chicago accent, you'll be in for an uphill battle arguing that one influences the other. There is nothing even remotely similar about their dialects. The Midwest is considered the "North Central United States." Also, if you look at Catholic maps, a significant portion of rural Missouri has counties with 10-15% or more Catholics, which you won't find in the Southern states except for Louisiana (due to the French and creole elements), Florida (due to northern migrants), and Texas (Hispanics). That is just one Southern characteristic. To say that because a place has one modern characteristic that's not representive of a region, it's not part of the region, is ridiculously narrow-minded. The Midland accent covers the central and lower midwest. There is north Midland and south midland, neither of which is considered southern. I agree it's not anywhere near 100% northern, but it is definitely in excess of 50%. Any Midwestern or northeastern state bordering the south (all of the Census Bureau's definition excluding MD and DE in my opinion), is not 100% "northern."
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