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Old 11-16-2011, 08:05 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,555,922 times
Reputation: 5662

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the difference is, the midwest cities can get those bone chilling arctic days... the east coast (coastal cities) more or less doesn't get those.

Last edited by grapico; 11-16-2011 at 08:15 AM..
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,555,922 times
Reputation: 5662
Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
the difference is, the midwest cities can get those bone chilling arctic days... the east coast (coastal cities) more or less doesn't get those.
It's the same concept as places like SF staying cooler, while Sac is super hot. Or Miami being cooler, and Atlanta being scorching. or Lake Michigan getting cooler, and inland being scorching.
water definitely moderates the temps, if you are close enough to it.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,850 posts, read 7,795,643 times
Reputation: 9469
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
This is another map which seems to make more sense at least to me...and it's not because of STL being in a different zone than Philly...it's because the boundaries just don't act as weird.

Redirect Notice
Boundaries don't act as weird? LOL.

BTW, here are more maps:





http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3521/climatezonemapfj6.jpg (broken link)
Free Printable Maps: Climate Maps United States and Canada


File:Average Annual High Temperature of the United States.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.alpinehomeair.com/ewebedi...erature_-1.gif


File:Average precipitation in the lower 48 states of the USA.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/publica...k/snowfall.jpg


http://clem.mscd.edu/~wagnerri/Intro/AirMass/snow.gif


All sizes | Snow Cover: Average Annual Number of Days | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cartoko/4460022474/sizes/z/in/photostream/ - broken link)

So back to your claim:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
In any case, the Mid-Atlantic, compared to the Lower Midwest, is generally much warmer due to the warming effect of the ocean.
Post all the maps you want. I repeat:
Quote:
I'm just not buying these sweeping claims that the areas are MUCH colder or MUCH hotter than one another when data shows there's not a hill of beans difference between them. If a few degrees difference one way or the other signifies a signficanly harsher winter to you, so be it.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:00 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,555,922 times
Reputation: 5662
this is actually a better map for how mild it is, the maps above are too much "average" ...which doesn't tell the real picture. they are also far too broad. the midwest gets significantly more extreme weather days including bitter and prolonged cold snaps. You can see Long Island for instance in the pink zone. Now if you go inland, it gets colder and snowier in a HURRY. Upstate NY is a much more severe winter than that experienced in Long Island. Even as far north as Cape Cod can be surprisingly mild compared to just 50 miles inland.
http://clematis.org/images/usdamap-large.jpg (broken link)

Last edited by grapico; 11-16-2011 at 09:10 AM..
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:01 AM
 
3,149 posts, read 3,084,775 times
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Default Hee hee...

Jm02 and Stlouisan are having a snowball fight!
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,226,540 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02 View Post
Boundaries don't act as weird? LOL.

BTW, here are more maps:






Free Printable Maps: Climate Maps United States and Canada


File:Average Annual High Temperature of the United States.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.alpinehomeair.com/ewebedi...erature_-1.gif


File:Average precipitation in the lower 48 states of the USA.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/publica...k/snowfall.jpg


http://clem.mscd.edu/~wagnerri/Intro/AirMass/snow.gif


All sizes | Snow Cover: Average Annual Number of Days | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cartoko/4460022474/sizes/z/in/photostream/ - broken link)

So back to your claim:

Post all the maps you want. I repeat:
Yeah...some of those boundaries in your first map zig-zag straight-up north and straight-up down again...they didn't look like any kind of climatological map like the ones you just posted. the one annual snow cover period I could say is inaccurate is with St. Louis...as somebody who lives here, I can tell you that all of St. Louis County and St. Louis city get days in the blue area. Laugh if you want, but I've lived here 25 years and know what I've seen. From a climatological standpoint, your first map has boundaries not only I, but the reasonable person would question. You obviously believe I chose the second map because of St. Louis being in a different zone than Philly. I wasn't making a major issue of the boundaries, just saying that there are many maps with more consistent data, regardless of whether or not St. Louis and Philly are in different or same regions. Obviously, you're interested in figuratively crucifying me, so this conversation over.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,850 posts, read 7,795,643 times
Reputation: 9469
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Yeah...some of those boundaries in your first map zig-zag straight-up north and straight-up down again...they didn't look like any kind of climatological map like the ones you just posted. the one annual snow cover period I could say is inaccurate is with St. Louis...as somebody who lives here, I can tell you that all of St. Louis County and St. Louis city get days in the blue area. Laugh if you want, but I've lived here 25 years and know what I've seen. From a climatological standpoint, your first map has boundaries not only I, but the reasonable person would question. You obviously believe I chose the second map because of St. Louis being in a different zone than Philly. I wasn't making a major issue of the boundaries, just saying that there are many maps with more consistent data, regardless of whether or not St. Louis and Philly are in different or same regions. Obviously, you're interested in figuratively crucifying me, so this conversation over.
It seems you've chosen to believe what you believe. So be it. I place more credibility in the research of degreed climatologists. Beyond these academic findings I've presented, I also have my own personal experience. I was raised in the mid-Atlantic but have lived in 7 different states. Here's how i would contrast my experience of the seasons in three of those states with those I've experienced in the mid-Atlantic:
>Massachusetts: Moderately shorter and milder summers, moderately longer and harsher winters
>Texas Gulf Coast: Considerably longer and more intense summers, considerably shorter and milder winters
>Central Missouri: No real discernible differences

Of course, everyone's thermostat is different. I assume you've lived elsewhere besides your 25 years in SL? Perhaps the mid-Atlantic? How did you experience the seasons there in comparison with those in SL?

To this point, you offer two pieces of "evidence" that lead you to conclude the mid-Atlantic is MUCH warmer that the lower mid-west:
>The fact that you spent 25 years in one city there, and you "know what you've seen" and
>A link which reputes the average high winter temps in St Louis are two degrees colder than Philly

As I've stated, if this is the basis of your contention that St Louis is MUCH colder than Philly, hold onto than belief. I have no interest in disabusing you of this notion. Just don't expect me to concur in the face of climatological data and first hand experience. If to you, that feels like a "crucifixion" consider yourself nailed.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:25 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,073 posts, read 5,447,005 times
Reputation: 4299
I think the most important thing is that all of the maps posted in this thread are AWESOME!!
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,081 posts, read 2,897,764 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
this is actually a better map for how mild it is, the maps above are too much "average" ...which doesn't tell the real picture. they are also far too broad. the midwest gets significantly more extreme weather days including bitter and prolonged cold snaps. You can see Long Island for instance in the pink zone. Now if you go inland, it gets colder and snowier in a HURRY. Upstate NY is a much more severe winter than that experienced in Long Island. Even as far north as Cape Cod can be surprisingly mild compared to just 50 miles inland.
I'm in agreement with this map. Once you get into the yellow in SE Missouri that is where you begin to see cotton and rice. My hometown is right on the line. The town I'm in now is quite a bit cooler than SE Missouri yet they're in the same state.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,226,540 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02 View Post
It seems you've chosen to believe what you believe. So be it. I place more credibility in the research of degreed climatologists. Beyond these academic findings I've presented, I also have my own personal experience. I was raised in the mid-Atlantic but have lived in 7 different states. Here's how i would contrast my experience of the seasons in three of those states with those I've experienced in the mid-Atlantic:
>Massachusetts: Moderately shorter and milder summers, moderately longer and harsher winters
>Texas Gulf Coast: Considerably longer and more intense summers, considerably shorter and milder winters
>Central Missouri: No real discernible differences

Of course, everyone's thermostat is different. I assume you've lived elsewhere besides your 25 years in SL? Perhaps the mid-Atlantic? How did you experience the seasons there in comparison with those in SL?

To this point, you offer two pieces of "evidence" that lead you to conclude the mid-Atlantic is MUCH warmer that the lower mid-west:
>The fact that you spent 25 years in one city there, and you "know what you've seen" and
>A link which reputes the average high winter temps in St Louis are two degrees colder than Philly

As I've stated, if this is the basis of your contention that St Louis is MUCH colder than Philly, hold onto than belief. I have no interest in disabusing you of this notion. Just don't expect me to concur in the face of climatological data and first hand experience. If to you, that feels like a "crucifixion" consider yourself nailed.
I have relatives in D.C. who have told me that generally D.C. doesn't get as cold as often as STL or normally get nearly as much snow, although it does get as cold. It's all subjective. I'm no longer holding onto the notion that STL is much colder than Philly. I never have....I was under the assumption that STL will get below freezing more than Philly will. I also never was able to obtain a measurable average snowfall for Philadelphia until now....it could have been that I was using the Trenton-Mercer airport instead of KPHL. Obviously, I was wrong. Also, Philadelphia is placed firmly in the humid subtropical zone....St. Louis is borderline humid continental and humid subtropical. You've driven the nail in far enough though. No need to do it any further unless you just enjoy it. I would however, assume that Philadelphia would have more thaws and days where it is not cold than St. Louis would. I could be wrong there too.
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