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Old 12-14-2013, 12:16 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,129,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I think your map is pretty close. Texas is real confusing because it is so large but there is no doubt that east Texas is southern. By the time you get past I-35 you start to get to that arid ranching type culture that isn't really southern but is influenced by the fact that Texas politically and culturally is a southern state. Then you throw in the panhandle and you have a chunk that is part southwestern and part plains.

Suffice it to say, if west Texas (west of I-35) were a different state than Texas and attained statehood AFTER the civil war, it would be lumped into the New Mexico'Arizona paradigm.

The same could be said for Oklahoma which has the same issues in southwestern Oklahoma. Sorta plainsy, sort of southwestern and sort of southern. In fact Oklahoma was almost admitted as two seperate states. Had it been, "Oklahoma" the western part would have been much more southwestern in nature and "Sequoyah" the eastern part of what is now Oklahoma would have been decidedly Southern.

And then you could probably include a chunk of southern Missouri as southern and a strip along the Ohio river in Illinois, Indiana and maybe Ohio as quasi southern.

Really good map IMO.
But it didn't and that is the key point. West Texas is the southeast moved west; it was settled by southeastern pioneers coming west to get a new start and they brought their culture and attitudes with them. A way of life may have changed a bit, due to the physical environment, but the main ingredients did not.

The whole I-35 thing is a myth that never even really had a basis in reality at all. It all started with that Ft. Worth slogan of "Where The West Begins". What throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing is that the slogan did not only not originate with Ft. Worth, but was never intended to mean "The South Stops Here." Anymore than the St. Louis "Gateway to the West" was intended to mean 'The Midwest Stops Here." This is evidence by the rivalry reply of Dallas which rejoined "Where the East Ends". Note that the South was not mentioned and those early settlers would have considered it absurd to disassociate themselves from the region they were part of.

Anyway, something akin, -- and I know it is only my opinion -- is really not any different than a topography creation that has little to do with culture and history. About the same as the Mountain South is from the Deep South. What is the difference?

And really, even landscape wise, most of west Texas doesn't bear all that much resemblance to New Mexico and Arizona. It sure doesn't in terms of settlement, accent, voting patterns, etc.

Texas IS southwestern, but in a totally different sense than is New Mexico and Arizona. Texas is western South, in the original application of the terms (which meant the frontier part of the South as the nation moved west). On the other hand, the latter two are southern West, and nothing classically Southern about them.

They are simply two different "Southwests."

There is nothing in the Bible that says the southeast is synonymous with "The South". In spite of what some "Deep South Purists" seemingly claim! LOL

Last edited by TexasReb; 12-14-2013 at 12:30 AM..
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
The map is wrong, it extends too far west into Texas, and doesnt cover enough of Florida.
No, it doesn't extend far enough into Texas. Here is a better map...where Southern American English is the general rule!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...EnglishMap.jpg
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
No, it doesn't extend far enough into Texas. Here is a better map...where Southern American English is the general rule!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...EnglishMap.jpg
Kind of surprised the southern accent goes into New Mexico a bit, but i'd definitely Agree with this definition of the south. The only part of Texas that is like Arizona or NM is El Paso and to a degree the Big Bend region. It is more southern influenced even on the plains. Look at the film "No Country For Old Men" the characters all sound like Southerners even though they live in the "southwest" where as most people in Arizona, don't have an accent that is noticeable.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,756,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbay33 View Post
Look at the film "No Country For Old Men" the characters all sound like Southerners even though they live in the "southwest" where as most people in Arizona, don't have an accent that is noticeable.
Well if they talk that way in a MOVIE then it MUST be true! They must talk that way in Phoenix too I guess, because they did in "Raising Arizona".

Just messin' with you. Actually, that accent can be heard throughout Texas as far West as Hudspeth county, as far North as the Northern tip of the panhandle, and as far South as Brownsville, though there are a few subtle variations in dialect.

El Paso is probably the only part of Texas where that accent is rarely heard. It's fading in the big cities due to the influx of transplants and immigrants, but it still exists even in Houston and Dallas.

Last edited by Bobloblawslawblog; 12-15-2013 at 04:09 AM..
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,886 posts, read 6,209,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
But it didn't and that is the key point. West Texas is the southeast moved west; it was settled by southeastern pioneers coming west to get a new start and they brought their culture and attitudes with them. A way of life may have changed a bit, due to the physical environment, but the main ingredients did not.

The whole I-35 thing is a myth that never even really had a basis in reality at all. It all started with that Ft. Worth slogan of "Where The West Begins". What throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing is that the slogan did not only not originate with Ft. Worth, but was never intended to mean "The South Stops Here." Anymore than the St. Louis "Gateway to the West" was intended to mean 'The Midwest Stops Here." This is evidence by the rivalry reply of Dallas which rejoined "Where the East Ends". Note that the South was not mentioned and those early settlers would have considered it absurd to disassociate themselves from the region they were part of.

Anyway, something akin, -- and I know it is only my opinion -- is really not any different than a topography creation that has little to do with culture and history. About the same as the Mountain South is from the Deep South. What is the difference?

And really, even landscape wise, most of west Texas doesn't bear all that much resemblance to New Mexico and Arizona. It sure doesn't in terms of settlement, accent, voting patterns, etc.

Texas IS southwestern, but in a totally different sense than is New Mexico and Arizona. Texas is western South, in the original application of the terms (which meant the frontier part of the South as the nation moved west). On the other hand, the latter two are southern West, and nothing classically Southern about them.

They are simply two different "Southwests."

There is nothing in the Bible that says the southeast is synonymous with "The South". In spite of what some "Deep South Purists" seemingly claim! LOL
I always end up arguing with you about this on every thread. It ends up being that you believe that the people moving to west Texas 100 years ago from points from further east in the south makes it southern. I, in turn, point out that Texas west of I-35 west of I-35 (roughly) has more southwestern elements than it even shares with east Texas relative to industry, weather, etc.

I would dare say that I spend half of my life driving through Texas west of I-35 these days from HWY 90 up through the Panhandle. I just drove from Alpine to OKC two days ago. I just can't get it through my head how you think that Big Springs, TX isn't more like Artesia, NM than it is Lufkin, TX. much less, some place in Mississippi, Alabama, or Rome, Georgia (in the mountains) If you want to say that Artesia, NM is "southern" that's fine by me, but my point is that west Texas is desert and it shares that with Arizona and NM.

There are no deserts in the traditional "south", including the portion of the south that is east Texas. The 85 million mesquite trees I drove by in the 7.5 hours it took me to get from Alpine to Burkburnett kept crying out "we are NOT southern" along the way.
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:47 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,825,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
The map is wrong, it extends too far west into Texas, and doesnt cover enough of Florida.
I disagree with your Florida comment. I think the map is pretty close but there are some key places in the Tampa Bay area that I'd exclude and I'd probably cut it just north of Naples on Gulf side.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:25 PM
 
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Corpus Christi and Tampa are probably the southern extents (though even Miami has some southern influence).

The corridor through San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, and Oklahoma City is the western border. Further west than that and it is "far west" or "southwest" territory. I think the DFW metroplex is split as far as climate and region goes.

Really, any part of the "South" west of the Mississippi should be considered "Mid South".

Here is a pretty famous native of Tampa. Tell me this isn't southern:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCbp4wnyG9U

Last edited by Hamtonfordbury; 12-15-2013 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:59 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,203,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
No, it doesn't extend far enough into Texas. Here is a better map...where Southern American English is the general rule!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...EnglishMap.jpg
That map extends waayyy too far into South Texas. Southern American English is at its most typical in the portion of Texas east of the Trinity River. Anything west is a Texan accent.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:02 PM
 
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Southernmost southern-cultured city can perhaps be Jacksonville. I know there is a bunch of debate whether that line ends at Orlando, but it depends on the town and area. Jacksonville still has a more significant southern-style identity compared to CFL.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:29 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,129,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
That map extends waayyy too far into South Texas. Southern American English is at its most typical in the portion of Texas east of the Trinity River. Anything west is a Texan accent.
So what is the difference in a Texas accent and a so-called "Southern accent"? What is the similarity of an eastern Tennessee accent and a south Missisippi accent?

With all due respect, you seem to be under the common misconcpetion that a "Southern Accent" is one and the same all over states save Texas? Is the southern Louisiana accent a "Southern accent"? If so, then what does it share in common with that of tidewater Virginia? Is north Alabama (mountain South) not Southern because it is more akin to Tennessee than that in Mobile?

But to be fair, please share your linguistic knowledge that will refute those who made this map based upon multiple studies?

A "Texas accent" is a blend of Upper and Lower South. In that regard, it might even be the most "concise Southern accent" of all!

Yes, I am jesting a bit...but the point stands. There is no single Texas accent anymore than there is a single Southern accent. What there is, is a region of the country, in the southeastern and south-central part of the United states that, because of certain shared features of settlement and history, have a linguistic commonality that share features of accent and idiom that easily offset it from the Northeast, Midwest, and far West. Generally, it extends from Virginia to Texas.

Last edited by TexasReb; 12-15-2013 at 07:50 PM..
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