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Old 12-15-2013, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,610 posts, read 36,668,588 times
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All y'all in Texas are southern. Y'all aren't all DEEP SOUTH southern, but y'all are southern. Damn straight ch'are.
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:31 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,179,154 times
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Quote:
=eddie gein;32618950]I always end up arguing with you about this on every thread. It ends up being that you believe that the people moving to west Texas 100 years ago from points from further east in the south makes it southern. I, in turn, point out that Texas west of I-35 west of I-35 (roughly) has more southwestern elements than it even shares with east Texas relative to industry, weather, etc.
I get your point, but you don't seem to get mine. When you classify a state with a region, then the key aspect is what historical and cultural experiences are shared. You seem to classify it in terms of landscape....which is flawed even there. Two-thirds of Texas is either humid-sub-tropical, or sub-humid humid-subtropical. Nothing at all like the interior SW states (i.e. New Mexico and Arizona)

Quote:
I would dare say that I spend half of my life driving through Texas west of I-35 these days from HWY 90 up through the Panhandle. I just drove from Alpine to OKC two days ago. I just can't get it through my head how you think that Big Springs, TX isn't more like Artesia, NM than it is Lufkin, TX. much less, some place in Mississippi, Alabama, or Rome, Georgia (in the mountains) If you want to say that Artesia, NM is "southern" that's fine by me, but my point is that west Texas is desert and it shares that with Arizona and NM.
And I lived here ALL my life! LOL Who the hell ever said Aresia, New Mexico is "Southern"? What in the world are you talking about? I said the opposite in lots of ways...as in that the "Southwest" of Texas (and Oklahoma, to a somewhat lesser extent), are "Southwestern" in that they combine the true South with the frontier west. On the other hand? The Southwest of New Mexico and Arizona are truly western and nothing Southern about them.

And most of west Texas is not true desert, and almost none of it is mountain. And what part of west Texas was influenced by the above states. They weren't at all. Texas was shaped by elements from the South and share very little if anything in common with the interior southwest. No, most of Texas is not Old South -- I agree -- but it was those from the states of the southeast who made into what it is. Even if Ft. Worth doesn't look like Savannah, Georgia, in scenery, do you honestly think that those from the Old Southeast who came to Texas just suddenly became different because they crossed the Sabine River? That is ludicrous. Did you know that in 1858, that the phrase "Empire State of the South" was first applied to Texas?

Quote:
There are no deserts in the traditional "south", including the portion of the south that is east Texas. The 85 million mesquite trees I drove by in the 7.5 hours it took me to get from Alpine to Burkburnett kept crying out "we are NOT southern" along the way.
C'mon! Who kept crying that out? There are no mountains in southern Alabama and Mississppi, like there are in Tennessee, Arkansas and North Carolina. No swamps and cypress forests in north Georgia as there are in East Texas. No Cajun enclaves in Virginia like there are south of Riceland, Louisiana. Does that mean they are not "Southern". And funny thing too, is that the most extensive sociological surveys ever done on the subject, over a period of 7 years indicates just the opposite of what you say!

And hey, although I have done so many times, before? Want me to post the entire survey, again? I will be happy to!

Anyway, just out of curiosity -- on an unrelated tangent -- where did you come up with the idea to use your screen moniker, eddie gein? As I understand it, this person (the actual Eddie Gein) was a monster and mass murderer upon who the cult-classic, "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" was based on. Not a real likeable human being...

Is that your real name? Just asking! I mean, if that is just a coincidence, I respectfully offer that you might consider changing it (screen name) just because of the horrible connotations....

Eddie Gein &mdash; Buffalo Bill and <i>Psycho</i> &mdash; Crime Library on truTV.com

Last edited by TexasReb; 12-15-2013 at 08:04 PM..
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:09 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,179,154 times
Reputation: 5746
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbay33 View Post
Kind of surprised the southern accent goes into New Mexico a bit, but i'd definitely Agree with this definition of the south. The only part of Texas that is like Arizona or NM is El Paso and to a degree the Big Bend region. It is more southern influenced even on the plains. Look at the film "No Country For Old Men" the characters all sound like Southerners even though they live in the "southwest" where as most people in Arizona, don't have an accent that is noticeable.
Another rep point here. Great post and definitely true points!
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:45 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,918 posts, read 12,409,820 times
Reputation: 4843
WESTERN (the line shifts diagonally too)
- Huntington, West Virginia
- Fayetteville, Arkansas (PERHAPS eastern Oklahoma)
- Dallas (I feel Fort Worth is more culturally western and its "where the west begins"

SOUTHERN
- Orlando
- Houston
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:39 PM
 
363 posts, read 623,226 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
Well if they talk that way in a MOVIE then it MUST be true! They must talk that way in Phoenix too I guess, because they did in "Raising Arizona".

Just messin' with you. Actually, that accent can be heard throughout Texas as far West as Hudspeth county, as far North as the Northern tip of the panhandle, and as far South as Brownsville, though there are a few subtle variations in dialect.

El Paso is probably the only part of Texas where that accent is rarely heard. It's fading in the big cities due to the influx of transplants and immigrants, but it still exists even in Houston and Dallas.
LOL Raising Arizona. I love that movie, even though it is terribly inaccurate, at least in the sense that no one has an accent like that at least to my knowledge.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,773,079 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbay33 View Post
LOL Raising Arizona. I love that movie, even though it is terribly inaccurate, at least in the sense that no one has an accent like that at least to my knowledge.
And best of all... Raising Arizona is a Coen Brothers flick, just like "No Country For Old Men".
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,966 posts, read 6,277,219 times
Reputation: 6269
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
I get your point, but you don't seem to get mine. When you classify a state with a region, then the key aspect is what historical and cultural experiences are shared. You seem to classify it in terms of landscape....which is flawed even there. Two-thirds of Texas is either humid-sub-tropical, or sub-humid humid-subtropical. Nothing at all like the interior SW states (i.e. New Mexico and Arizona)



And I lived here ALL my life! LOL Who the hell ever said Aresia, New Mexico is "Southern"? What in the world are you talking about? I said the opposite in lots of ways...as in that the "Southwest" of Texas (and Oklahoma, to a somewhat lesser extent), are "Southwestern" in that they combine the true South with the frontier west. On the other hand? The Southwest of New Mexico and Arizona are truly western and nothing Southern about them.

And most of west Texas is not true desert, and almost none of it is mountain. And what part of west Texas was influenced by the above states. They weren't at all. Texas was shaped by elements from the South and share very little if anything in common with the interior southwest. No, most of Texas is not Old South -- I agree -- but it was those from the states of the southeast who made into what it is. Even if Ft. Worth doesn't look like Savannah, Georgia, in scenery, do you honestly think that those from the Old Southeast who came to Texas just suddenly became different because they crossed the Sabine River? That is ludicrous. Did you know that in 1858, that the phrase "Empire State of the South" was first applied to Texas?



C'mon! Who kept crying that out? There are no mountains in southern Alabama and Mississppi, like there are in Tennessee, Arkansas and North Carolina. No swamps and cypress forests in north Georgia as there are in East Texas. No Cajun enclaves in Virginia like there are south of Riceland, Louisiana. Does that mean they are not "Southern". And funny thing too, is that the most extensive sociological surveys ever done on the subject, over a period of 7 years indicates just the opposite of what you say!

And hey, although I have done so many times, before? Want me to post the entire survey, again? I will be happy to!

Anyway, just out of curiosity -- on an unrelated tangent -- where did you come up with the idea to use your screen moniker, eddie gein? As I understand it, this person (the actual Eddie Gein) was a monster and mass murderer upon who the cult-classic, "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" was based on. Not a real likeable human being...

Is that your real name? Just asking! I mean, if that is just a coincidence, I respectfully offer that you might consider changing it (screen name) just because of the horrible connotations....

Eddie Gein &mdash; Buffalo Bill and <i>Psycho</i> &mdash; Crime Library on truTV.com
I don't disagree with you that Texas is a "southern" state because of all those things you say. But west Texas is different than the rest of the south including the traditionally southern part of Texas. It shares a lot with the southwest, the great plains and Mexico. The Rio Grande Valley for instance is influenced by Mexico way more than the south.

You claimed that Artesia, NM isn't southern? Well why not? It's exactly like Monahans, Seminole, Lamesa, and a million other west Texas oil towns (that you of course know more about than me.).
They call the area "Little Texas" and a good portion of the people that live there are transplanted Texans and by proxy, according to your theory, transplanted southerners.

And what constitutes "true desert"? Let's just say that about 1/3 of Texas is extremely arid much like the deserts to it's west.

I'm curious as to exactly what makes Arizona "southwestern" when historically it was settled by people from Texas in it's territorial days. Voted for secession as a territory and was controlled by the confederacy during a good portion of the War of Northern Aggression. By your own standards shouldn't Arizona (Arizona territory initially was the southern halves of both Arizona and New Mexico) be considered southern? Or are you all of the sudden switching gears and saying that it is southwestern because of something else........Like landscape?

Last edited by eddie gein; 12-16-2013 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:08 AM
 
363 posts, read 623,226 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I don't disagree with you that Texas is a "southern" state because of all those things you say. But west Texas is different than the rest of the south including the traditionally southern part of Texas. It shares a lot with the southwest, the great plains and Mexico. The Rio Grande Valley for instance is influenced by Mexico way more than the south.

You claimed that Artesia, NM isn't southern? Well why not? It's exactly like Monahans, Seminole, Lamesa, and a million other west Texas oil towns (that you of course know more about than me.).
They call the area "Little Texas" and a good portion of the people that live there are transplanted Texans and by proxy, according to your theory, transplanted southerners.

And what constitutes "true desert"? Let's just say that about 1/3 of Texas is extremely arid much like the deserts to it's west.

I'm curious as to exactly what makes Arizona "southwestern" when historically it was settled by people from Texas in it's territorial days. Voted for secession as a territory and was controlled by the confederacy during a good portion of the War of Northern Aggression. By your own standards shouldn't Arizona (Arizona territory initially was the southern halves of both Arizona and New Mexico) be considered southern? Or are you all of the sudden switching gears and saying that it is southwestern because of something else........Like landscape?

Arizona was also heavily settled by Mormons (who's lineage was mostly from the north or in Britain or Scandinavia) as well as hispanics and other drifters from the west. . Sure Texans were a force, but the other influences were a part of it. Also, who knows maybe Arizona seemed more Southern 100 years ago. Kind of like Florida. Granted as I said there weren't just Texans in Arizona.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Augusta GA
880 posts, read 2,538,447 times
Reputation: 357
I'd say Spotsylvania County is where the cultural south begins to dissipate (specifically around Thornburg VA) on the northern extent. I would also say it extends to about Gainsville FL (more of a transitional area now) and northern ST Johns County (just north of St Augustine FL) to the south. As far as the western extent, I would say to just west of Odessa TX as well as all of the TX and OK panhandle. Yes they have different topography, but they are all majority Southern Baptist, call all soft drinks Coke, drink sweet tea, and are very socially conservative. I would also include a good chunk of southern and central MO outside of metro St Louis and Kansas City, as well as extreme southern IL, OH, and IN. Cities like Louisville KY and Covington KY are more of transitional cities with southern and northern influences.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,773,079 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
And what constitutes "true desert"? Let's just say that about 1/3 of Texas is extremely arid much like the deserts to it's west.

I'm curious as to exactly what makes Arizona "southwestern" when historically it was settled by people from Texas in it's territorial days. Voted for secession as a territory and was controlled by the confederacy during a good portion of the War of Northern Aggression. By your own standards shouldn't Arizona (Arizona territory initially was the southern halves of both Arizona and New Mexico) be considered southern? Or are you all of the sudden switching gears and saying that it is southwestern because of something else........Like landscape?
Great point about Arizona. I lived in AZ for 8 years and though it definitely didn't have the same kind of culture as Mississippi or Alabama, there was an acknowledged Southern influence in it's history. The Westernmost battle of the Civil War was fought between Union soldiers from California and Confederates from Tucson at a Confederate outpost at Picacho Peak, halfway between Phoenix and Tucson. I even remember hearing some slight Southern accents from a few long-time locals, though it was barely noticeable.

As to your question of "what constitutes a true desert?", it has always been my understanding that anywhere that receives 10 inches of rainfall or less annually is TRUE desert. In Texas terms, that would be most of the state West of the Pecos River and a few isolated spots along the Rio Grande East of the Pecos. Places like the panhandle and Big Spring are usually classified as "Semi-arid Steppe". Close to being a desert, but not quite a "true" desert. Still... a far cry from the lush green woodlands of the deep South.

Last edited by Bobloblawslawblog; 12-16-2013 at 04:08 PM..
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