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Old 12-21-2011, 10:44 AM
 
350 posts, read 608,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe View Post
Indeed.

I wonder how there could be such a rapdi decline of English and British Americans?

It's pretty much impossible for an ethnic group to lose over 20 million people in just 30 years.

This is what I'm talking about, the number of English and British americans gets downplayed in favor of German, Italian and all other groups virtually.

Especially in favor of the option American ancestry. This option was introduced in the 1990 US Census and there were 12 million who consider themselves as American ancestry and in the 2000 US Census they were 20 million. In my opinion the number will continue to grow and soon it will be at the expense of other groups such as Irish or German who will drop.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Floribama
15,031 posts, read 31,400,710 times
Reputation: 13841
In the lower South there is a mix of Scotts-Irish, English, French, and Native American ancestry. A lot of white folks may even have some African blood from somewhere along the line. Its so blended now there's almost no way to know, this is why Southerners tend to just say "American".

The farthest I have been able to track my family's history has been to Paris in 1765.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,884 posts, read 10,391,718 times
Reputation: 8050
Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe View Post
The UK is a sovereign state, Germany is a sovereign state.

Yet German-Americans can be counted as one but not British-Americans.

Whats the difference?
Why won't you address my posts? I have already answered why.

Do you feel that all the countries that were ruled by the British Empire considered themselves "British" back then?

The same is true today. There will always be people that will resist being identified with a group that has historically been oppresive and tyrannical. Especially when a culture or people has been directly oppressed by them.

There are still many Irish and Scottish groups (and have been for hundreds of years) that want Britain out of their countries and you seem to think that they all should be grouped as "British".

26+6=1
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:55 AM
 
51 posts, read 58,752 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
Why won't you address my posts? I have already answered why.

Do you feel that all the countries that were ruled by the British Empire considered themselves "British" back then?

The same is true today. There will always be people that will resist being identified with a group that has historically been oppresive and tyrannical.

There are still many Irish and Scottish groups (and have been for hundreds of years) that want Britain out of their countries and you seem to think that they all should be grouped as "British".

26+6=1
It would be one thing to call them all English. That'd be wrong to do.

But to call them British is just being correct.

A person from Scotland is still Scottish but also British per defenition.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,169,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash XY View Post
Especially in favor of the option American ancestry.
Exactly right! Both sides of my family have been in the US for 200+ years, I am no more Dutch/Irish/French than a rock. My ancestors may have been, but if we are going to get into that argument, then why is there ANY option other than African? After all that is where ALL of our original ancestors came from. Who cares what areas they stopped off in on the way to becoming us.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:59 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,573,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
Why won't you address my posts? I have already answered why.

Do you feel that all the countries that were ruled by the British Empire considered themselves "British" back then?

The same is true today. There will always be people that will resist being identified with a group that has historically been oppresive and tyrannical.

There are still many Irish and Scottish groups (and have been for hundreds of years) that want Britain out of their countries and you seem to think that they all should be grouped as "British"
He also ignores than England, Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland are all countries themselves continuously. They all have separate governments and legislatures that work alongside the UK... There is a reason they have so much power, otherwise they probably would have broken apart. They do NOT operate like states in the U.S. and they are not near as homogenous either. I feel like I am arguing with somebody in elementary school. Defoe, please check those links I gave you, and get back to us when you have a good grasp of the history of these countries, along with how the UK Monarchy actually works. It is NOT like the Federal system of the US. Of those, Scotland and N. Ireland have much stronger devolved powers than Wales... Hence why I said England/Wales would be the appropriate combination earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
Exactly right! Both sides of my family have been in the US for 200+ years, I am no more Dutch/Irish/French than a rock. My ancestors may have been, but if we are going to get into that argument, then why is there ANY option other than African? After all that is where ALL of our original ancestors came from. Who cares what areas they stopped off in on the way to becoming us.
This is why many countries have a 2 generation gap where you can have dual citizenship.

Defoe, I know a lot of people here in Chicago who are involved with these kind of things, I'll refrain from naming names though. If you are in Chicago, I could invite you over for a chat and they could explain the system better than I could. Just stop in at the British Consulate http://ukinusa.fco.gov.uk/en/about-u...tions/chicago/ Although, I Think it would devolve into something like Dinner for S C H M U C Ks, I think the rest of the board knows which character you would play... But it would be a good laugh for myself as well as some colleagues. It is right on Michigan Avenue, so you could get some shopping done and a bite to eat also.

You could also stop in at the Irish American Heritage Center in Chicago http://explorechicago.org/city/en/th..._heritage.html , they would equally enjoy laughing at your banter. Though be careful with these folks... they might literally slug you one to the face if you started saying they were British. I would say I'm kidding, but I'm not.

New York and Boston have similar sister institutions... so if you are in those fine cities, you could stand to learn a bit by visiting.

Anyway, if you are ever in Chicago you could just stop at either and they will help you out, I don't actually want to meet you, but I would probably hear about some crazy person who walked in there pandering their diatribe which would add some laughter.

Last edited by grapico; 12-21-2011 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, Canada
1,255 posts, read 2,111,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
Exactly right! Both sides of my family have been in the US for 200+ years, I am no more Dutch/Irish/French than a rock. My ancestors may have been, but if we are going to get into that argument, then why is there ANY option other than African? After all that is where ALL of our original ancestors came from. Who cares what areas they stopped off in on the way to becoming us.
And nationality isn't historically very fixed in the old-world, either. English has been a mix of Anglo-Saxon, Celt, Scandinavian, French, Roman... whatever period you want, it's been there to a degree.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:35 AM
 
51 posts, read 58,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
Though be careful with these folks... they might literally slug you one to the face if you started saying they were British. I would say I'm kidding, but I'm not.
I haven't said Irish people are British as in that they are of British nationality though.

You are still putting words in my mouth. I said Ireland belongs to the British isles as a geographical area(which is correct)

And The UK is a sovereign state like any other country and should be compared to other sovereign states and that's exactly what I do.

You can argue all you want about Scotland being their own country, I don't kow what you define as a country. I define it as a sovereign state since thats what most countrys are. And Scotland is not a sovereign state.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:39 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,573,808 times
Reputation: 5662
Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe View Post
I haven't said Irish people are British as in that they are of British nationality though.

You are still putting words in my mouth. I said Ireland belongs to the British isles as a geographical area.

And The UK is a sovereign state like any other country and should be compared to other sovereign states and that's exactly what I do.

You can argue all you want about Scotland being their own country, I don't kow what you define as a country. I define it as a sovereign nation since thats what most countrys are. And Scotland is not a sovereign nation.
The UK itself defines Scotland as a country.

You originally counted Irish along with the British in your opening post, before you are corrected.

I am trying to correct you once again, but you aren't listening.

The Welsh are even gaining more power, this year in fact.

Wales votes 'yes' to more devolved powers - Telegraph

"
Deputy First Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones, AM for Ynys Mon, said: "Let's be proud that the nation has spoken with one voice.
"The rest of the world can sit up and take notice of a small country that has emerged determined to secure its identity.
"Wales is a nation capable of making its own decisions."
Welsh Conservative leader Nick Bourne, whose party is the main opposition in the Senedd, said Wales had now been given the tools to do the job."


Scotland and N. Ireland still have greater powers.



Again you should probably do some research on how the UK actually works, and see how THEY define it, instead of taking in your delusional definition of such.

Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland are all countries AND nations, they just are sovereign under the UK... This is MUCH different than how the U.S. Federal system works, and why, as many posters have continuously tried to get through to you, they shouldn't be grouped together. N. Ireland is NOT like Wisconsin lol...

I think we have explained why they are not counted like this, through numerous frames of reference. Now if you want to CONTINUE to create your own definition of "British-American", please do so...you have that right. Nobody is going to take any of your posts seriously though.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,154 posts, read 23,676,300 times
Reputation: 11625
The number is probably a bit higher as there's a historical tendency to consider anyone who has any African ancestry to be African-American exclusively. Given that the majority of the plantation owners of the South and general citizenry had British ancestry, it's likely that a large portion or even majority of African-Americans in the United States have some British ancestry.
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