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Old 12-21-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,573,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe View Post
So you're trying to tell me it wasn't British? I guess next you're gonna tell me Scotland isn't British either?



No, because they are far more different than what a Scotsman is compared to an Englisman or Welshman.

Scotland, England and Wales have traditionally been the UK for hundreds of years. They speak the same language. And modern day Scotland is hardly THAT different from modern day England. Minor differences sure but it's not like comparing England with China.
Why not just group "all white folks" from Europe in the same category then. Why would you make a distinction for even German-Americans?
You realize the people from the Normandy region of France could be said to share more ancestral heritage with the modern natives of England than Scotland right?

The other links might have been too difficult... how about straight from wikipedia?

Today, the British Isles contain two sovereign states: the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom. There are also three Crown dependencies: Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. The United Kingdom may be further broken down into the four countries of the United Kingdom: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. Each of these countries bears its own history, with all but Northern Ireland having been independent states at one point. The History of the formation of the United Kingdom is very complex.

Not sure why I am arguing with you, you clearly believe what you want to believe and won't budge in the face of FACTS.

You have proved to flip flop on several occasions already. Not sure why I am even trying, as you clearly won't accept facts, and clearly don't know the history of these lands.
You continually confuse nations, ancestry, ethnicity, and sovereign states. These are all separate things!!! Your thread is titled ancestry, it is not the same as the other frames of reference. I suggest you start your thread over with better data.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:32 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,112,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe View Post
I've gotten the impression that most Americans want to "minimize" the number of British-Americans, in that they would rather want people to believe they're not that many as they actually are. Are Americans ashamed of their largely(yes largely) British-American ancestry?

Lets look at the demographics.

File:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes Germans are at the top at 15,2%...

But if one adds up the English(8,7%), American(who are largely in the south and mostly of scotch-irish and english ancestors who have been in the country for so long that they simply identify as "American" at 7,2%), Irish(10,8%), Scottish(1,7%), Scotch-Irish(1,5%)... And Welsh(who weren't on that list) are at 0,6%.

All this adds up to 30,5%.

So British-Americans are really by far the largest "group", those stats were from 2000 so it might have declined a bit since, and I suppose some of the ones who identify as "American" might be French or whatever but most of those are by far Scotch-Irish/English. ("American" shouldn't be confused with "Native American", who only make up 1,37% of the US population)

And even if the number of British-Americans have declined by a few percent, they still BY FAR outnumber German-Americans(who are said to be the biggest group). Infact British-Americans pretty much double German-Americans.

Obviously, I'm not saying the majority of all Americans are of British ancestry... But they are the biggest group.
Well, take me for example. I am one of these southerners who identifies as "American."

My ancestors were not "British." Great Britain did not exist when my ancestors relocated to the New World.

My ancestors were mostly English, but they were also Scottish, Irish, French (Brittany), and they came from "occupied" regions like Flanders, today's Netherlands, and today's Germany. They were united more by their Protestant faith than their nationality. Many of my ancestors were Protestant Scottish and English "settlers" in Ireland, who (as I understand it) were basically subjugating the native Irish Catholics.

The reason I do not consider myself even "English-American," is because many of my ancestors were not English, nor were they immigrants to America; however, they were predominantly American revolutionaries. To me this is an important distinction that I'm proud of, so I generally call my ancestry "American."

These other european sub-groups -- "German American," or "Irish American," or "Italian American", generally refer to later waves of immigrants, after America had already gained its independence. I don't feel that my ancestry is well represented by any immigrant groups.

Truth be told, I consider "White Southerner" to be the ethnic group that I'm a part of, however, the U.S. Census doesn't see it fit to use that option.

Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 12-21-2011 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:51 PM
 
51 posts, read 58,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
Why not just group "all white folks" from Europe in the same category then. Why would you make a distinction for even German-Americans?
You realize the people from the Normandy region of France could be said to share more ancestral heritage with the modern natives of England than Scotland right?
But they don't share any cultural similarities.

If you don't think modern day Scotland, Wales and England is culturally similar it makes me wonder if you have been there.

I have brother and sister in England. I have been there more times than I remember.

I am generally a fan of all things British.

Scotland and England are FAR more similar than Germany and England or France and England. The differences today are small. Even the differences between Russia and Ukraine are probably bigger, atleast they speak slightly different languages.

I didn't group them together because I believed they were all the same ethnically dna wise, I grouped them together because culturally and language wise they are similar.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:55 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,112,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe View Post
But they don't share any cultural similarities.

If you don't think modern day Scotland, Wales and England is culturally similar it makes me wonder if you have been there.

I have brother and sister in England. I have been there more times than I remember.

I am generally a fan of all things British.

Scotland and England are FAR more similar than Germany and England or France and England. The differences today are small. Even the differences between Russia and Ukraine are probably bigger, atleast they speak slightly different languages.

I didn't group them together because I believed they were all the same ethnically dna wise, I grouped them together because culturally and language wise they are similar.
Modern day is irrelevant. The people who put "American" down are generally people whose family has been in the new world for a very long time. Back then, there was no Great Britain.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:27 PM
 
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It's true that the option American ancestry is mainly a southern thing use by people of Scots-Irish/Scottish/English ancestry but people from other regions also use it. For example, in upstate New York some Dutch American consider themselves as American because they related to the first settlers. There is also a lot of peoples in the West (Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Oregon, Washington and Montana) and New England (Vermont and Maine) who consider themselves as American.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:30 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,112,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
Many of my ancestors were Protestant Scottish and English "settlers" in Ireland, who (as I understand it) were basically subjugating the native Irish Catholics.
sorry, let me clarify.

the people who "colonized" ireland, for the english, were a mixed bunch of protestants -- English, but also Hueguenots, Scots, Dutch, Germans, etc. I don't know if anyone could tell you the exact composition, but I have noticed that many of the "English" names in the american south are regional to this area, and are anglicized versions of continental european names.

Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 12-21-2011 at 04:46 PM..
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:49 PM
 
350 posts, read 608,171 times
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Default http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people

Quote:
sorry, let me clarify.

the people who "colonized" ireland, for the english, were a mixed bunch of protestants -- Hueguenots, Scots, Dutch, Germans, etc.

many of the "English" names in the american south are regional to this area, and are anglicized versions of continental european names.
I agree that the people who colonized Ireland, were a mixed of Huguenots , Dutch, Germans but the majority of planters were still of Scots and northern English ancestry, so not all the names were anglicized. French Huguenots, Dutch and Germans were a small number compared to the Scots in Northern Ireland.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:20 PM
 
711 posts, read 1,288,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defoe View Post
Are Americans ashamed of their largely(yes largely) British-American ancestry?
Yes, very much so due to the fact the Royal Family brings shame to the world.

The Queen with her Crown of Diamonds & "Sceptre with the Star of Africa" is a slap in the face to the poverty all over.

The U.K is going thru all types of problems right now also with poverty and crime.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:26 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,403,340 times
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Yes alot of those 'Americans' have British ancestry.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:31 PM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,580,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CairoCanadian View Post
If you look at those statistics, they add up to more than 100%, which is to say that these categories aren't exclusive to each other.

I've traced my geneology, and I could indentify as Canadian, English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German, French, Cree, and Metis but that doesn't mean I count as nine people.

If anything, I feel British ancestry is overplayed, with many WASPs having other European ancestry. German ancestry generally seems underestimated outside of Pennsylvania.
British ancestry is huge in the South. Most native southerners can trace their family line back to the 1700s. Less immigration occurred in the South during the great waves of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Since it's been such a long time, there's less connection, so many don't realize that they're actually descended from Brits and Scots. Thus, not knowing, which they should if they actually looked up the etymology or heritage of their last name, they just say "American". Many southerners also don't like the idea of being a hyphenated American, thus they're less apt to say anything but American, particularly white southerners. You also have to consider that U.S. society adopted more cultural elements that were British, such as the English language. Thus, there's less of a difference between what was adopted as normal cultural customs and the large British population. Thus, there's less need to preserve what would be viewed as different, such as those of German, Polish, or Italian roots, as the dominant culture is already that of which is descended from the Brits. Think about it. If English is the language, and if people of English descent are living within such a culture, the cultural elements aren't seen as much as different from the dominant culture, nor are they threatened. Thus, people over time don't consciously think about it being different, and they simply come to define themselves merely as "American".
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