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Old 12-21-2011, 09:47 PM
 
21,210 posts, read 30,427,905 times
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The responses on this thread would help indicate why there are so many long-term unemployed in this country, the refusal to come to grips with the fact that the jobs more than likely aren't returning to where they once were....and if they do return it's in the form of a low-paying service sector job. The Sunbelt is very 10 years ago, meanwhile the "Rust Belt" has reinvented itself with a diverse economy and the lowest unemployment rates in the country. For those who look down their noses at living in the Midwest or Plains States while sticking to areas with high unemployment rates and low salaries in favor of better weather or self-perceived superiority, I say best of luck to you but keep the outdated stereotypes out of the conversation.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
3,844 posts, read 8,038,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
The responses on this thread would help indicate why there are so many long-term unemployed in this country, the refusal to come to grips with the fact that the jobs more than likely aren't returning to where they once were....and if they do return it's in the form of a low-paying service sector job. The Sunbelt is very 10 years ago, meanwhile the "Rust Belt" has reinvented itself with a diverse economy and the lowest unemployment rates in the country. For those who look down their noses at living in the Midwest or Plains States while sticking to areas with high unemployment rates and low salaries in favor of better weather or self-perceived superiority, I say best of luck to you but keep the outdated stereotypes out of the conversation.
Agreed. Here's an article, for example, on Cleveland discussing just this view:

While unemployment remains an issue locally and nationwide, Cleveland has been doing relatively well. With a thriving medical industry, many new construction jobs, casino jobs, technology jobs, steel jobs and work supporting the new shale drilling industry...

The old, negative views of Cleveland may be hard for some to shake, but they are outdated. Things are getting better here. Much better.

Cleveland Has 10th Lowest Unemployment Rate In The Nation
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,628 posts, read 12,519,176 times
Reputation: 4055
Let me interject here, especially with the "people just aren't moving to the Rust Belt" notion. That is crack smoking at its absolute finest. I would be willing to bet that a strong percentage of people have moved to the Sun Belt in the past decade or so not because of the "amazing quality of life", but because their job--which was probably located somewhere in the Northeast, Rust Belt, or California--said "hey, we're moving our offices here because we got a 90% tax break...are you coming, or are you going to have to be laid off?"

I'm not meaning this as an insult to the Southern cities like Atl, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Orlando, blah, blah, blah...but there's a reason in the past decade all of a sudden people have been moving to these cities. It's not because they're worthy of the global stage or people just happened to stumble upon it...it's because there were absurd tax breaks given to companies to move there. Call it a coincidence, but Georgia stopped giving those crazy tax breaks and--OMG!!!!--all of a sudden Atlanta has an unemployment crisis!!! Could it be because a bunch of people moved to the ATL area with the promise of continued employment and now all of a sudden the sh1t hit the fan? Probably, yes.

So ultimately, yea the low unemployment in the Rust Belt is largely due to the fact that there aren't many new businesses there...but at the same time, the Sunbelt is now being crushed because an enormous group of people were blackmailed into moving to Georgia and North Carolina under the premise that it was the only way to keep their job and now they've lost their job anyway. Sooooo.....pick your poison?
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,705,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
Let me interject here, especially with the "people just aren't moving to the Rust Belt" notion. That is crack smoking at its absolute finest. I would be willing to bet that a strong percentage of people have moved to the Sun Belt in the past decade or so not because of the "amazing quality of life", but because their job--which was probably located somewhere in the Northeast, Rust Belt, or California--said "hey, we're moving our offices here because we got a 90% tax break...are you coming, or are you going to have to be laid off?"

I'm not meaning this as an insult to the Southern cities like Atl, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Orlando, blah, blah, blah...but there's a reason in the past decade all of a sudden people have been moving to these cities. It's not because they're worthy of the global stage or people just happened to stumble upon it...it's because there were absurd tax breaks given to companies to move there. Call it a coincidence, but Georgia stopped giving those crazy tax breaks and--OMG!!!!--all of a sudden Atlanta has an unemployment crisis!!! Could it be because a bunch of people moved to the ATL area with the promise of continued employment and now all of a sudden the sh1t hit the fan? Probably, yes.

So ultimately, yea the low unemployment in the Rust Belt is largely due to the fact that there aren't many new businesses there...but at the same time, the Sunbelt is now being crushed because an enormous group of people were blackmailed into moving to Georgia and North Carolina under the premise that it was the only way to keep their job and now they've lost their job anyway. Sooooo.....pick your poison?
That's what I said......

I wasn't saying the remark to be rude or cruel; it's just the truth. People aren't moving to the rustbelt like that.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:27 PM
 
29,949 posts, read 27,441,480 times
Reputation: 18544
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
Let me interject here, especially with the "people just aren't moving to the Rust Belt" notion. That is crack smoking at its absolute finest. I would be willing to bet that a strong percentage of people have moved to the Sun Belt in the past decade or so not because of the "amazing quality of life", but because their job--which was probably located somewhere in the Northeast, Rust Belt, or California--said "hey, we're moving our offices here because we got a 90% tax break...are you coming, or are you going to have to be laid off?"

I'm not meaning this as an insult to the Southern cities like Atl, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Orlando, blah, blah, blah...but there's a reason in the past decade all of a sudden people have been moving to these cities. It's not because they're worthy of the global stage or people just happened to stumble upon it...it's because there were absurd tax breaks given to companies to move there. Call it a coincidence, but Georgia stopped giving those crazy tax breaks and--OMG!!!!--all of a sudden Atlanta has an unemployment crisis!!! Could it be because a bunch of people moved to the ATL area with the promise of continued employment and now all of a sudden the sh1t hit the fan? Probably, yes.

So ultimately, yea the low unemployment in the Rust Belt is largely due to the fact that there aren't many new businesses there...but at the same time, the Sunbelt is now being crushed because an enormous group of people were blackmailed into moving to Georgia and North Carolina under the premise that it was the only way to keep their job and now they've lost their job anyway. Sooooo.....pick your poison?
I think you might be exaggerating just a tad bit here. Of course there have been companies moving from the North/Midwest/Rustbelt to the South--of this there is no doubt--I don't think a majority of the new residents moved down with their jobs. For instance, look at the NC Triangle region. Most of the companies setting up shop in RTP are not relocating operations there, but are starting brand new operations there. When I look at the largest F500 corporations in the Sunbelt, most are home-grown. And let's not forget that the Southern cities are attracting just as many transplants from elsewhere in the South than from the North and Midwest.

And Georgia hasn't really stopped giving tax breaks. That's definitely not the cause of Atlanta's unemployment rate (look at incentives that NC is still doling out and Charlotte's unemployment rate).
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,106 posts, read 13,507,872 times
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I think people are also completely misrepresenting what "Rust Belt" even is. It represented a relatively small collection of cities, largely along the Great Lakes' borders, that had their manufacturing-based economies collapse because of outsourcing and trade agreements that hurt American businesses. However, for the most part, what caused the Rust Belt is no longer true. Most of those former cities are diversified and gaining people back into their urban cores, with few exceptions. Also, the vast majority of cities in the North and Northeast NEVER were "rust belt" to begin with. Places like Minneapolis, Des Moines, Omaha, Indianapolis, Columbus, etc never were manufacturing economies and hence never saw that kind of downturn. In fact, all of those cities represent some of the lowest unemployment and healthiest economies in the country, and are also seeing fast population growth. Even old rust belt cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh have been making huge advances in improving economic strengths. The Sun Belt has benefited largely because of tax breaks, not because they actually produced companies and diversified economies, and their growth came at the expense of older cities going through rough times. For the most part, those conditions no longer exist, and it remains to be seen if the Sun Belt can keep growth rates anywhere near what they have been when economies have become so much better where people have been moving from.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:06 AM
 
Location: McKeesport
4,542 posts, read 7,448,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
The Sunbelt is very 10 years ago, meanwhile the "Rust Belt" has reinvented itself with a diverse economy and the lowest unemployment rates in the country. For those who look down their noses at living in the Midwest or Plains States while sticking to areas with high unemployment rates and low salaries in favor of better weather or self-perceived superiority, I say best of luck to you but keep the outdated stereotypes out of the conversation.
Amen. I would prefer the rust-belt for urbanity, history, and architecture alone. I was even willing to live here when there were no jobs because I had so much disdain for the sun-belt vinyl village sprawl culture. Now that many areas of the rust-belt offer good job opportunities as well as affordability, I feel like I can have my cake and eat it, too!

However, it must be said that until Detroit, Toledo, Flint, Youngstown, etc. get in on the comeback, we can't say that the rust-belt as a whole has had a victory. Only some of the rust-belt cities are doing comparatively well.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:23 AM
 
62 posts, read 73,347 times
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With the sunbelt is has to do with people moving there from the NE at a rapid rate. Most of these people do not have jobs, and many of them, I'm sorry to be so blunt, are unemployable losers running away from past mistakes to join there families here.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:28 AM
 
62 posts, read 73,347 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
Let me interject here, especially with the "people just aren't moving to the Rust Belt" notion. That is crack smoking at its absolute finest. I would be willing to bet that a strong percentage of people have moved to the Sun Belt in the past decade or so not because of the "amazing quality of life", but because their job--which was probably located somewhere in the Northeast, Rust Belt, or California--said "hey, we're moving our offices here because we got a 90% tax break...are you coming, or are you going to have to be laid off?"

I'm not meaning this as an insult to the Southern cities like Atl, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Orlando, blah, blah, blah...but there's a reason in the past decade all of a sudden people have been moving to these cities. It's not because they're worthy of the global stage or people just happened to stumble upon it...it's because there were absurd tax breaks given to companies to move there. Call it a coincidence, but Georgia stopped giving those crazy tax breaks and--OMG!!!!--all of a sudden Atlanta has an unemployment crisis!!! Could it be because a bunch of people moved to the ATL area with the promise of continued employment and now all of a sudden the sh1t hit the fan? Probably, yes.

So ultimately, yea the low unemployment in the Rust Belt is largely due to the fact that there aren't many new businesses there...but at the same time, the Sunbelt is now being crushed because an enormous group of people were blackmailed into moving to Georgia and North Carolina under the premise that it was the only way to keep their job and now they've lost their job anyway. Sooooo.....pick your poison?
I really wish you were right. I live in the sun belt. For every person from NY moving here with a job, there are 10 high school dropouts with criminal records from NY moving down here.

The competetion for high paying jobs here is actually not too bad, its the low paying jobs that are hard to get. The tri states worst have moved here and taken all the high school kids jobs.

If you move down here and you don't have an IMMENSE support system, and a college degree, your extremely ignorant of how the real world works down here. Good luck getting a job at mcdonalds, your gonna need it.

I'm actually planning a move from "the sun belt" to the "rust belt" in the near future because no offense, people from the northeast and midwest have completely ruined it. It's not the people themselves, its just theres too many of them at one time, and too many of them appear uneducated with a checkered past.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:55 AM
 
56,747 posts, read 81,061,259 times
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Just to bring some balance, the Syracuse and Rochester metros gained people this past decade. While it hasn't been huge, they have gained nonetheless and some other metros have made slight gains as well.
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