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Old 12-25-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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Another problem is that the sun belt job growth that IS occurring is low wage and therefore contributes little to tax revenue.

It's a race to the bottom, selling out Americans to the lowest bidder.

This, combined with the fact that the sunbelt cities are much less dense areas that require double/triple infrastructure spending to upkeep and expand, makes me think that the Great Lakes will not be having the worst of troubles in the future.
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Old 12-26-2011, 06:39 PM
 
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but, to address the answer below re: uneducated work force throughout the u.s., we apparently acknowledge that many are under educated---a broad demographic. however, the media seems to think that blacks, who are, generally, less educated because they failed to graduate h.s., prepare for a technical education, or a vocation, etc., should be expected to step over everyone else, because they have twice the unemployment rates than others. why would anyone expect this minority, which, btw, is no longer the largest minority but has fallen to the second largest, as now the hispanics have taken the largest minority spot. is it rational to think that uneducated blacks should expect to be paid 22.50 + /hour to turn screws, to place covers over lawnmowers, and other ridiculous pay scales v.s. job description, etc.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingchef View Post
however, the media seems to think that blacks, who are, generally, less educated because they failed to graduate h.s., prepare for a technical education, or a vocation, etc., should be expected to step over everyone else, because they have twice the unemployment rates than others.
I have seen absolutely no evidence of this. You mind providing the media sources that say as much?

Quote:
why would anyone expect this minority, which, btw, is no longer the largest minority but has fallen to the second largest, as now the hispanics have taken the largest minority spot. is it rational to think that uneducated blacks should expect to be paid 22.50 + /hour to turn screws, to place covers over lawnmowers, and other ridiculous pay scales v.s. job description, etc.
I'm pretty sure you're lying by implying that Black folk would get paid this amount for such work while everyone else is getting pennies on the dollar. If a blue-collar operation is offering a wage like this for such work, then everyone is getting it, not just Black folks.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:39 AM
 
56,698 posts, read 81,017,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I have seen absolutely no evidence of this. You mind providing the media sources that say as much?



I'm pretty sure you're lying by implying that Black folk would get paid this amount for such work while everyone else is getting pennies on the dollar. If a blue-collar operation is offering a wage like this for such work, then everyone is getting it, not just Black folks.
Yeah, you beat me to the punch, as i haven't seen anything close to this anywhere. If anything, Blacks have been historicaly seen as expendable considering the many waves of immigration in the US.

Anyway, I think people have to keep in mind about the "false" economy that was occurring in the Sun Belt and parts of cA due to people moving there. Many were just retirees and that economy was built around the housing industry. So, it is an industry that can either look very good or very bad. We are now seeing the latter.

Also, as Great Lakes metros reinvent themselves, I think you will slowly, but sure see people taking notice. You even see it on here where many people that moved away from these areas miss many things about them and I'm sure if the proper imdustries grow in these metros, you will see your share of folks move back or become first time residents.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Yeah, you beat me to the punch, as i haven't seen anything close to this anywhere. If anything, Blacks have been historicaly seen as expendable considering the many waves of immigration in the US.

Anyway, I think people have to keep in mind about the "false" economy that was occurring in the Sun Belt and parts of cA due to people moving there. Many were just retirees and that economy was built around the housing industry. So, it is an industry that can either look very good or very bad. We are now seeing the latter.

Also, as Great Lakes metros reinvent themselves, I think you will slowly, but sure see people taking notice. You even see it on here where many people that moved away from these areas miss many things about them and I'm sure if the proper imdustries grow in these metros, you will see your share of folks move back or become first time residents.

The Great Lakes will not see a population boom. The Sunbelt will continue to grow in the next couple of decades. Don't be fooled. The economy in the Sunbelt will come.People are not going to pack and leave to a cold region in the 21st century.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Things are definitely pick up around here. While it is still nothing to brag about, the Orange County unemployment rate is about 8.5%
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 10,146,208 times
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Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
The Great Lakes will not see a population boom. The Sunbelt will continue to grow in the next couple of decades. Don't be fooled. The economy in the Sunbelt will come.People are not going to pack and leave to a cold region in the 21st century.
When people get their values straight, comments like these will be fodder for future generations. Not everyone is afraid of cold weather, but the grass IS always greener somewhere else, especially when the going gets tough (like during the 2nd worst recession in U.S. HISTORY!).
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,187,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
The Great Lakes will not see a population boom. The Sunbelt will continue to grow in the next couple of decades. Don't be fooled. The economy in the Sunbelt will come.People are not going to pack and leave to a cold region in the 21st century.
I agree, the biggest source of population increases are in births. The sunbelt has a much younger population with a higher birth rate. That won't even out for a couple of decades.

The natural increases in some sunbelt metros accounted for 500,000 people last census. That is more than the total increase some metros increased by in other parts of the country.

areas with tons of young immigrants pumping out babies, will for a while seem to be attracting a lot of people, even though most of the growth is from natural increase.

In many a frost belt town it is the combination of more people dying than being born in conjunction with fewer people coming in than going out that is causing a slower growth rate.

In Texas for example over 50% of the growth last decade came from Natural Increase. In the 90's it was similar where the Natural increase gave near 2M people and the net immigration also neared two million people
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
I agree, the biggest source of population increases are in births. The sunbelt has a much younger population with a higher birth rate. That won't even out for a couple of decades.

The natural increases in some sunbelt metros accounted for 500,000 people last census. That is more than the total increase some metros increased by in other parts of the country.

areas with tons of young immigrants pumping out babies, will for a while seem to be attracting a lot of people, even though most of the growth is from natural increase.

In many a frost belt town it is the combination of more people dying than being born in conjunction with fewer people coming in than going out that is causing a slower growth rate.

In Texas for example over 50% of the growth last decade came from Natural Increase. In the 90's it was similar where the Natural increase gave near 2M people and the net immigration also neared two million people
Actually, what has helped Great Lakes metros stabilize is immigration. So, these groups will have their share of children and will change the makeup of these areas as well. I'm talking about some of these metros are getting immigrants and refugees from places like Bhutan, Burma, the Sudan, Bosnia, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, the Congo and Ethiopia.

Like I mentioned, do not be surprised if and/or when these areas start getting people again, once they recreate themselves. To be honest, may of these areas have infrastruture for more people anyway. here's an interesting article: Are Small Rust Belt Cities the Future of Green? - Technology - The Atlantic Cities
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:08 AM
 
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as far as the sunbelt states, yes, some of these states or particular regions is these states have experienced moderate to high growth in the last 10 years. much of that growth was targeted growth for highly technical workers in pre-selected cities, e.g. austin, dallas, houston, and most of texas, good deal of louisana, even w/ katrina, the north carolina (the triangle area), charlotte, banking, it high pying jobs, investments, medical jobs which surround these industries, many of which had begun to boom in the early nineties. virginia beach, norfolk, gastonia, charlotte, wake forrest, raleigh, the bowash mega region, etc., have all experienced great growth, and highly technical jobs, many related to defense and military (now that looks as if it is going to be slowing down) and other large portions of the economic pie. where there are jobs, there is growth. but, look at the mess washington d.c., the baltimore region, and even pittsburgh and philly was in during this early 90's, 2000's. pittsburgh has turned itself around despite the bad economy of the last 5 years. people run philly and baltimore down as if they are lost causes. i remember when washington was a laughing stock of the entire country, in the marion berry days. the cities of the northeast may suffer some continued population growth to the south and the midwest, but these northeast cities still have the educational institutions, the infrastructure, the natural sea ports, etc., to import-export, ship building, repair, fishing, and much more. these cities are filled w/ government agencies, research institutions, and will eventually pick up on the newer economy of america, once we have it figured out. these times are similar to the changes that we expericenced between the post industrial and a good deal of the post manufacturing age, even though a return to america of jobs that left these shores due to cheap labor over seas. these losses are going to have to be dealt w/ by deregulation, incentives, and, to some extent, refusal of the american market to refuse to purchase products exported from america by american companies, in other words, sanction our own companies and put a value on the amount of anyone's worth to a company.

as for high growth states, i think that much of the hype about montana, idaho, utah, iowa, tn, nevada, and some of the others has centered around moderate growth, but much of it hasn't panned out. many of the lower southern states are generally a year behind recessions and recoveries. the midwest continues to have a great deal of land to occupy. people write off detriot, but it will remain on the map, maybe not as big and as influencial, but it will come back. i personally hate to see so much of the south become a second pattern for the u.s. and the mistakes made in the north and northeast. the west coast is not the way most in this area want to live. tn had a growth rate of 11.3%, and i personally think that is a little to high, but at least it isn't in the 22 to 27 % range.

as for these whiners and high unemployment, if you have failed to see the democrats, republicans, obama, and others talk about the disparity between the unemployment of the black miniority, then you must not be watching the news outlets. the point is that is should come as no surprise. they are less educated, and, in order to position themselves for the majority to obtain education and skills, they are going to have to face a different philosophy in the ghettos, housing projects, and on the streets. the same is true w/ all other groups in america. the hispanics are going to have to stand up and learn to speak english, instead of expecting everyone in the workplace to learn the hispanic language. the "proud to be here" attitude will wear off before the first generation has seen its second generation. that generation is going to expect to have high paying jobs, and all the rights and responsibilities of other americans. no doubt this will become a hot bed of argument and frustration far beyond what it is now.

as for the idea that people are leaving the north because of cold winters, i find that difficult to believe. i am originally from chicago, and i love cold weather. if fuel heating prices are the concern, you would have similar problems w/ cooling issues in the south or west or southwest. move closer to d.c. if you want more hot air, after all that is where that idiot windbag of a president lives and the nutty congress. that is our country's biggest problem, not just wall street, but congress, the president, insurance companies, and the like, such as hmo's, medical organizations, etc.
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