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Old 12-30-2011, 07:15 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,157,756 times
Reputation: 7738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985 View Post
You know, New Jersey isn't part of "legal" NYC, right?

For the city itself, I'm going to say Chicago. You don't have to travel to another state, or even another city/suburb, to watch their professional teams play. They're all within the city borders.

As well as O'Hare and Midway airport.

It seems to me that New York relies too much on New Jersey to help round out the things that NYC legal boundaries can't hold. Chicago has made deliberate actions and efforts to keep all the elements of a "City" inside the city.

New York City, on the other hand, due to land limitations and current use of land, has some of its "City" elements outside the city.

But then consider the MSA and CSA, I think that New York does come out on top there.
NYC has two airports within the city limits; EWR is actually not far outside the city limits at all. In terms of sports teams; honestly I am not sure it really matters at all quite honestly nor do I think that is a metric to judge a city. Even said there will be 5 teams playing within the city limits next year with 4 outside the limits

The Meadowlands are probably as close to Midtown as Lincoln Park is to Soldier field. Really not seeing this as a major point of anything

I love Chicago but not sure what you are getting at here honestly
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Chicago
1,312 posts, read 1,582,316 times
Reputation: 1487
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
NYC has two airports within the city limits; EWR is actually not far outside the city limits at all. In terms of sports teams; honestly I am not sure it really matters at all quite honestly nor do I think that is a metric to judge a city. Even said there will be 5 teams playing within the city limits next year with 4 outside the limits

The Meadowlands are probably as close to Midtown as Lincoln Park is to Soldier field. Really not seeing this as a major point of anything

I love Chicago but not sure what you are getting at here honestly
Where are the Meadowlands? New Jersey you say? Okay. That's what I'm getting at.

That's why I have six (6) different categories of "boundaries" in which cities can be discussed. Apples to apples. Apple trees to Apple trees.

I made the category of "Legal boundaries (arbitrary or not)" that limits the discussion to those specific dividing lines. And being from Philadelphia, it seems to me that this would seem like a rather "frivilous" distinction to be made, because any comparison in which the city is not coming out favorably, the scope of comparison changes. That is, if Philadelphia is "lacking" something, it seems to me like the default thing for people to do is to switch to, "Yeah, but NYC is right there touching the border, so Philly is getting the edge."

These 6 categories DO NOT ALLOW such switching simply to receive an upper hand in a discussion. Apples to apples. Apple trees to Apple trees.

It's not:

1. Fair
2. Productive
3. Or enlightening

To compare the apple bucket of Chicago to the apple core of San Francisco to the apple orchard or Philadelphia to the apple stem of NYC, is it?

If you fail to see any usefullness in differentiating between borders (arbitrary or not) I would like to suggest that you:

1. Enjoy reading the thread
2. Never become my next door neighbor. Because, yes, I want those boundary lines to be respected no matter how arbitrary they may be. And just because my pool is the same distance from your back door as it is mine, does NOT MEAN it is yours.

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Old 12-30-2011, 08:03 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,157,756 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985 View Post
Where are the Meadowlands? New Jersey you say? Okay. That's what I'm getting at.

That's why I have six (6) different categories of "boundaries" in which cities can be discussed. Apples to apples. Apple trees to Apple trees.

I made the category of "Legal boundaries (arbitrary or not)" that limits the discussion to those specific dividing lines. And being from Philadelphia, it seems to me that this would seem like a rather "frivilous" distinction to be made, because any comparison in which the city is not coming out favorably, the scope of comparison changes. That is, if Philadelphia is "lacking" something, it seems to me like the default thing for people to do is to switch to, "Yeah, but NYC is right there touching the border, so Philly is getting the edge."

These 6 categories DO NOT ALLOW such switching simply to receive an upper hand in a discussion. Apples to apples. Apple trees to Apple trees.

It's not:

1. Fair
2. Productive
3. Or enlightening

To compare the apple bucket of Chicago to the apple core of San Francisco to the apple orchard or Philadelphia to the apple stem of NYC, is it?

If you fail to see any usefullness in differentiating between borders (arbitrary or not) I would like to suggest that you:

1. Enjoy reading the thread
2. Never become my next door neighbor. Because, yes, I want those boundary lines to be respected no matter how arbitrary they may be. And just because my pool is the same distance from your back door as it is mine, does NOT MEAN it is yours.

Well first Philly is not lacking anything; being in close proximity is a benefit not a crutch

Regardless whether legal or not these borders have virtually no impact on day to day life

I think this perspective may be different in the Northeast where many cities are on borders of multiple states etc. People here dont regard state boundaries in the same way many other parts of the contry do so it all may be perspective

And if some academic exercise makes you better about Chicago have at it; reality though is whole other thing

And no worries on your pool, I will be at my shore house; in yes you guessed it, New Jersey
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:00 AM
 
9,381 posts, read 9,539,690 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Well first Philly is not lacking anything; being in close proximity is a benefit not a crutch

Regardless whether legal or not these borders have virtually no impact on day to day life

I think this perspective may be different in the Northeast where many cities are on borders of multiple states etc. People here dont regard state boundaries in the same way many other parts of the contry do so it all may be perspective

And if some academic exercise makes you better about Chicago have at it; reality though is whole other thing

And no worries on your pool, I will be at my shore house; in yes you guessed it, New Jersey
State lines do Matter, Buisnesses can't survive along the Boarder in Massachusetts effectively because a Block away there are a bunch of Tax-free stores in NH, Particulatly in the Methuen/Salem Area.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:05 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,157,756 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
State lines do Matter, Buisnesses can't survive along the Boarder in Massachusetts effectively because a Block away there are a bunch of Tax-free stores in NH, Particulatly in the Methuen/Salem Area.

Well first the Boston interaction with other states is less pronounced than a NYC/Philly/DC and while there may be micro impacts (Hell Delaware has no sales tax whatsoever) it misses the point and context. The relationship of Nashua to Boston is not all the same as Hoboken to NYC etc.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:08 AM
 
9,381 posts, read 9,539,690 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Well first the Boston interaction with other states is less pronounced than a NYC/Philly/DC and while there may be micro impacts (Hell Delaware has no sales tax whatsoever) it misses the point and context. The relationship of Nashua to Boston is not all the same as Hoboken to NYC etc.
Town lines Matter as well, DPW's, Schools, Police, Fire Departments Ect. all have different Quality in Different Towns.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,132 posts, read 9,905,553 times
Reputation: 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
State lines do Matter, Buisnesses can't survive along the Boarder in Massachusetts effectively because a Block away there are a bunch of Tax-free stores in NH, Particulatly in the Methuen/Salem Area.
I am kind of suprised because I would think someone from the Northeast, with our chopped up British colonial imposed boundaries, and especially someone from New England, would realize how much we constantly cross state boundaries in this area.

You are right of course that state lines matter for legal and financial reasons. But I doubt on a thread, lets say for example "cities with nearby good skiing" most Bostonians would only mention places in western Massachusetts and not mention the White Mountains in New Hampshire or the Greens in Vermont just because they are in different states.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:14 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,246 posts, read 19,541,004 times
Reputation: 13002
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
People have differnent OPINIONS and these areas are subjective.
That's understood. However, on a public forum, it is expected that people should back up their opinions on criteria that are measureable in some way.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:31 PM
 
1,653 posts, read 5,160,936 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985 View Post

1. What city is the "Best" at the epicenter of it's numbering system (0 N, 0 E, 0 S, and 0 W)?

2. What city has the "Best" Downtown (using the city's defined borders of "Downtown")?

3. What city has the "Best" square mile (You provide an area of the city, and the bordering streets, that is one square mile. It's your choice of where/what square mile is used)?

4. What city is the "Best" inside it's legal boundaries (Arbitrary or not, nothing outside of legal city limits is considered for this one)?

5. What city is the "Best" at the MSA level?

6. What city is the "Best" at the CSA level?
1. This one I'm not so sure on, but I imagine Philadelphia would be among the best since its grid pattern became the basis for most other American cities.

2. Downtowns/CBDs all generally feel the same to me. Of the ones I've actually spent time in, I guess New York would be the best.

3. Man, it's hard to pick just one square mile to say as best in the country. I'm gonna say a one square mile patch in Baltimore near Patterson Park.

4. New York.

5. San Francisco Bay Area

6. Baltimore-Washington
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,467 posts, read 8,438,645 times
Reputation: 5512
NYC is the best city it is already proven.
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