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Old 12-31-2011, 05:17 PM
 
5,559 posts, read 7,002,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
That was the reason. People got fed up with high costs that surpassed there income and being nickle and dimed to death by common hustlers and fat cat government bureaucrats lining their pocket. Blacks where left behind to pick the bones unfortunately.

Coleman Young's 20-year reign in Detroit did wonders for the city. He stole from his own people to line his own pockets. And the voters in the city kept re-electing him !
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:15 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,409,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_cat View Post
Can anyone verify or negate this with some actual data? I'm curious.
Yes there is lots of evidence sprawl is in decline.

For some reason it upsets people. People can still live in their generic home, never talk to their neighbor, shop at strip malls, become culturally ignorant, get fat, and spend hours sitting in traffic in the sprawl.

In fact prices have continued to drop in sprawl like suburbs, with no end in site. There will still be sprawl, but it will associated with poverty, crime, unemployment, and the very worst of society.

You will be able to buy a McMansion for next to nothing the way things are going.

People need to understand that not every sprawling suburb will start to die, but a good number will while cities and smart suburbs, ones with planning, higher density, and good public transport will thrive.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_cat View Post
thanks
Source?

Any claim presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:22 PM
 
Location: IN
20,873 posts, read 36,034,944 times
Reputation: 13324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zembonez View Post
WOW. Somebody needs to inform our local builders that suburbs are not successful. They are building them like crazy here and people are waiting to move in as soon as they are done.
Texas is not similar to many other states in terms of population growth and suburban development.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Texas is not similar to many other states in terms of population growth and suburban development.
Exactly. Texas cities are thriving right now, but a lot of sprawl in places like California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, the Northeast, the Midwest, the pacific Northwest, etc are declining.

There are a few exceptions, like in Texas or DC that continue to experience sprawl, but even the DC metro area is embracing smart growth.

Right now Texas is doing ok because of their oil, but in a decade or 2 the sprawl there will decline like in most of the country. It could bring down the whole state if Texas does not start to embrace smart growth, planning, and good public transportation.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:32 PM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Exactly. Texas cities are thriving right now, but a lot of sprawl in places like California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, the Northeast, the Midwest, the pacific Northwest, etc are declining.

There are a few exceptions, like in Texas or DC that continue to experience sprawl, but even the DC metro area is embracing smart growth.

Right now Texas is doing ok because of their oil, but in a decade or 2 the sprawl there will decline like in most of the country. It could bring down the whole state if Texas does not start to embrace smart growth, planning, and good public transportation.
I think the impending water shortages and droughts will take the biggest toll on Texas due to the fact that any increases in temperature there will lead to greater amounts of evapotranspiration. I don't see the future as being good at all for Texas in that regard. That will drastically slow the growth in new development and population in the next few decades.
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:59 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,227 posts, read 18,004,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
For some reason it upsets people. People can still live in their generic home, never talk to their neighbor, shop at strip malls, become culturally ignorant, get fat, and spend hours sitting in traffic in the sprawl.
Shut up.

I live in an area that's low-density even for suburban development. In fact, sometimes I call it "subrural," because the vibe is almost rural. Just a mile away from me is the Oglethorpe County line (population 14,899). On a detailed map of urbanized areas, I'm literally on the eastern edge of all urbanity in north Georgia.

In spite of all this, I just talked to my neighbor about his Christmas lights a few weeks ago and asked if I could take a picture. They also know me on a first-name basis at the convenience store and the dollar store down on the corner.

I was raised in a large city by parents who were raised in a pair of small towns in rural Missouri. I've traveled plenty in my life; I've been to 34 states, plus Canada and a few places in Asia, specifically Taipei, Hong Kong and Ho Chi Minh City. Someday I want to travel to Japan and Australia. Who the hell are you to label me culturally ignorant?

Speaking of Asia, apparently many Asian immigrants want to do exactly as you described because they're skipping the cities proper now and heading straight for the suburbs. I'm pretty sure they appreciate your perception of them too.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:38 AM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,409,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Shut up.

I live in an area that's low-density even for suburban development. In fact, sometimes I call it "subrural," because the vibe is almost rural. Just a mile away from me is the Oglethorpe County line (population 14,899). On a detailed map of urbanized areas, I'm literally on the eastern edge of all urbanity in north Georgia.

In spite of all this, I just talked to my neighbor about his Christmas lights a few weeks ago and asked if I could take a picture. They also know me on a first-name basis at the convenience store and the dollar store down on the corner.

I was raised in a large city by parents who were raised in a pair of small towns in rural Missouri. I've traveled plenty in my life; I've been to 34 states, plus Canada and a few places in Asia, specifically Taipei, Hong Kong and Ho Chi Minh City. Someday I want to travel to Japan and Australia. Who the hell are you to label me culturally ignorant?

Speaking of Asia, apparently many Asian immigrants want to do exactly as you described because they're skipping the cities proper now and heading straight for the suburbs. I'm pretty sure they appreciate your perception of them too.
First chill out. Yelling at people to shut up because they disagree with you makes you look bad. You are welcome to your own opinion, but there is no need for you to get hostile when someone presents facts you don't like.

You need to stop comparing your experiences to every other suburbanite. Do you seriously not realize that not everyone has a similar situation to you.

I also never called you culturally ignorant. I dont make generalizations like you, and apply it to everyone. Of course not everyone who lives in a suburb is culturally ignorant, but many are. Suburbs arent exactly known for being cultural centers, although some do have this. What suburbs are known for is houses that are all the same, small yards, bad traffic, and box buildings selling products made in China and junk food.

The suburbs are infamous for alienation, obesity, spiritual/cultural/personal emptiness, and shallowness. Of course not every surbanite experiences these things, but a good number do.

I can believe Asians are moving to the suburbs. They are shrinking so housing prices are going down. If you did want to live in those boring places now is a great time to make the move. Although, if one were to wait a few more years for them to decline it would get even better.


It actually sounds like you dont even live in a suburban sprawl.

So calm down. This is what I was actually talking about earlier. People get angry when you point out the decline of the suburb to them. I know some people would rather bury their head in the sand and ignore reality, which is part of the appeal of a suburb in the first place, but it is not healthy to be in denial. The first step to recovery is admitting the problem.

If I were to point out that Detroit is continuing to decline nobody would care, but you point a suburb is declining and you get an angry mob denying it. It is an increasing phenomena that warrants further study. I think it is an appeal to ignorance. Similar to how people get upset when they are presented with evidence of global warming or the Earth being older than 4000 years old.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:57 AM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,311 posts, read 4,245,258 times
Reputation: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Source?

Any claim presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Did you really just quote Hitchens in an urbanism argument? I would give you reputation except that I totally disagree with your stance on this issue.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:04 AM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,409,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
Did you really just quote Hitchens in an urbanism argument? I would give you reputation except that I totally disagree with your stance on this issue.
Sorta. I kinda edited the Hitchens quote, but the idea is the same. Hitchens said ,
Quote:
“What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”
You should respect opinions that you dont agree with when they are presented in a rational way, although you may disagree. That is the problem with US society these days. Instead of thoughtful discussion we have hostility to different opinions and it is leading to a big rift in this country. Cant we find a middle ground?
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