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Old 03-08-2012, 11:13 AM
 
1,351 posts, read 2,453,248 times
Reputation: 1225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogex View Post
OK, I knew I should have included sources in my post about the midwest being more liberal than the west, because I assumed somebody would accuse me of being "off my rocker," because for some reason, everyone thinks the west is so liberal. So I found my source, and it says that the northeast is actually the most liberal part of the country, so I was wrong about it being the midwest. The midwest is actually the second most liberal part of the country. The south is the most conservative, and the west is the second most conservative. I have to find it, but I thought I read somewhere that the west is the most socially conservative region, social conservatism differing from political or economic. So, ok, there we go. As for California, it has some liberal towns, but it has some extremely conservative towns too. This is afterall a state that voted to ban gay marriage.

From the Bay Area Center for Voting Research's "The Most Conservative and Liberal Cities in the United States" (Link here: http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/...081205libs.pdf)...

"Despite being characterized nationally as a universally liberal state,
our findings show that many cities in California are extremely conservative, especially in the southern and inland portions of the state. Six California cities are on BACVR’s list of the twenty five most conservative cities in America."

and...

"San Francisco has long been tagged as the most liberal city in the country, however BACVR research now shatters this myth. San Francisco ranks a distant ninth place on the list of America’s most liberal cities, falling behind lesser know cities such as Gary, Indiana and Newark, New Jersey. San Francisco is not even the most liberal city in the Bay Area, ranking
below Berkeley and Oakland."

According to the BACVR report, Detroit, MI is the most liberal city in America, followed by Gary, IN, followed by Berkeley, CA.

As to your quote "California is BY FAR the most liberal state," it's actually the 10th most liberal state according to Gallup. So it's up there, but not quite the top. That data can be found here: Mississippi Rates as the Most Conservative U.S. State

Obvious flaws in your argument.

1. The number of conservative cities in CA - Yes, there are parts of CA, especially in the remote areas close to Arizona and in the Central Valley that can be quite conservative. However, these areas are a very minimal portion of California's population. California's primary population centers, the two big ones, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and then San Diego and Sacramento are all either very liberal or generally liberal.

2. CA cities are less liberal than Detroit and Gary - Again. WRONG. Those are probably measures of how "Democrat" each city is. Again, Democrat does not equal Liberal. The reason why these cities are considered more liberal is because they are almost effectively 80-90% African American. However, I have met many African Americans or Latinos who vote Democrat but hold on to very conservative values such as going to Church constantly, or being anti-Gay, etc etc. I seriously doubt Detroit or Gary has large numbers of vegans, or environmentalists, or progressives. Those are the primary values that define a "liberal" area. Just because you vote Democrat doesn't make you a "Liberal". Also, San Francisco may only be 9th on the list because so many people in SF vote for the Green Party. SF is the only major city in the US where every election is essentially a fight between the Democratic Party vs the Green Party with the Republicans essentially non-existent.

Your argument that Detroit and Gary is more "liberal" than SF or Berkeley is so preposterous and based on incorrect facts and data, that it is no more than a mere joke.

Anybody who has visited California and the Midwest knows the difference is night and day. Your argument has absolutely no backbone except for some misleading data that is taken out of context.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Chicago
19 posts, read 33,722 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacramento916 View Post
Obvious flaws in your argument.

1. The number of conservative cities in CA - Yes, there are parts of CA, especially in the remote areas close to Arizona and in the Central Valley that can be quite conservative. However, these areas are a very minimal portion of California's population. California's primary population centers, the two big ones, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and then San Diego and Sacramento are all either very liberal or generally liberal.

2. CA cities are less liberal than Detroit and Gary - Again. WRONG. Those are probably measures of how "Democrat" each city is. Again, Democrat does not equal Liberal. The reason why these cities are considered more liberal is because they are almost effectively 80-90% African American. However, I have met many African Americans or Latinos who vote Democrat but hold on to very conservative values such as going to Church constantly, or being anti-Gay, etc etc. I seriously doubt Detroit or Gary has large numbers of vegans, or environmentalists, or progressives. Those are the primary values that define a "liberal" area. Just because you vote Democrat doesn't make you a "Liberal". Also, San Francisco may only be 9th on the list because so many people in SF vote for the Green Party. SF is the only major city in the US where every election is essentially a fight between the Democratic Party vs the Green Party with the Republicans essentially non-existent.

Your argument that Detroit and Gary is more "liberal" than SF or Berkeley is so preposterous and based on incorrect facts and data, that it is no more than a mere joke.

Anybody who has visited California and the Midwest knows the difference is night and day. Your argument has absolutely no backbone except for some misleading data that is taken out of context.
I thought that posting the actual report that I quoted from would put this issue to rest, but I guess that only works if you read it. Clearly you didn't read it, because they specifically address the criticisms you named above. It's even a California organization that produced the report. They specifically mention their methodology- they measure how liberal a city is NOT by how many democrats there are or how many democratic votes there are, but how LIBERAL the candidates are that are voted for. So really, don't blame me, I'm just quoting the report. Blame the Bay Area Center for Voting Research if you disagree with what they say.

Also, have you ever BEEN to Detroit? Have you ever been to Gary, IN? If not, what's your basis for comparison? I've been to both. And I've spent a substantial amount of time in California. So I do have a basis for comparison.

But really, please read the report before commenting on it. Again, everything I said was right from the report. Gallup too. Take issue with them if you have a problem with their methodology. But they too clearly state that their polls are based on self-report data, surveys where people describe themselves as "liberal" "conservative" or "moderate," NOT democrat or republican. But until proven otherwise, I'm giving more credibility to what Gallup and the Bay Area Center for Voting Research says than what you say.

Last edited by boogex; 03-08-2012 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:10 AM
 
686 posts, read 959,507 times
Reputation: 283
America's base conservative nature disappoints me. Research shows Liberals have higher IQ's.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly DC and Phila
8,571 posts, read 12,692,525 times
Reputation: 8337
Have you checked out New Hope, PA in Bucks County? That might fit. I just moved to Chapel Hill, NC, and I do not get the ultra-liberal vibe here. There certainly are some, based on bumper stickers, anyway. But this is a town of rich folks - many whom have their noses stuck far up in the air. The town immediately adjacent to Chapel Hill is called Carrboro which someone upthread suggested. It does have a more "hippy" vibe than Chapel Hill and is a bit more affordable. It's supposedly how Chapel Hill used to be "back in the day" (more liberal, less rich/yuppie). The weather is great here, so far!
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:35 PM
 
1,938 posts, read 2,863,741 times
Reputation: 2676
I vote for Asheville, NC, or Iowa City, IA. I haven't been to Eugene, OR, but here it is an ultra-liberal college town. I wouldn't move to Portland or Seattle (or even Bellingham, WA) due to the very high housing prices.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:27 PM
 
18 posts, read 15,729 times
Reputation: 24
Austin, Texas---not at all like the rest to the state. And yes, you can have a garden there.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4 posts, read 6,306 times
Reputation: 19
Haven't you heard? Minneapolis, Minnesota! Check it out.
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