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Old 02-25-2012, 02:21 PM
 
6,352 posts, read 3,495,428 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
your backing your opinion with other peoples opinions, im backing up my observations, with numbers, not editorals.
You gave no numbers, except ones you made up.

Like I said come back with proof.

I have a view on an issue that is supported by statistics and research as shown by my links. If the numbers support your point show us. You should be able to give us hard evidence, other than claims on a forum to backup your point. In fact it would be quicker to actually do this than keep repeating made up facts.

 
Old 02-25-2012, 02:24 PM
 
5,309 posts, read 3,426,943 times
Reputation: 2094
Percentage of residents living in poverty in 2009: 17.1%

Suffolk County:
17.1%
Massachusetts:
10.3%


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/county/Suff...#ixzz1nQmT5LFZ


Estimated median household income in 2009: $26,098 (it was $29,526 in 2000)

Detroit:
$26,098
Michigan:
$45,255


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Detroi...#ixzz1nQnFdPUb

Clearly cities are poorer than Suburbs
 
Old 02-25-2012, 02:36 PM
 
6,352 posts, read 3,495,428 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Percentage of residents living in poverty in 2009: 17.1%

Suffolk County:
17.1%
Massachusetts:
10.3%


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/county/Suff...#ixzz1nQmT5LFZ


Estimated median household income in 2009: $26,098 (it was $29,526 in 2000)

Detroit:
$26,098
Michigan:
$45,255


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Detroi...#ixzz1nQnFdPUb

Clearly cities are poorer than Suburbs
See, the problem is you are picking 2 areas that dont represent every suburb and city in the country.

Not only that but your information includes other cities. Boston is not the only city in Massachusetts and Detroit is not the only city in Michigan. Did you not know this?

You didnt use consistent information either. In once case you used poverty rates and in the other case used median income.

Contrast that to my data that compares every suburb to every city, and you see a different picture.

I am surprised this is all you came up with. I didnt expect much, since all data will generally support my view, but what you presented is downright pathetic. I guess there really is no data supporting your claim. Sorry, the situation for the suburbs is even worse than I though.
 
Old 02-25-2012, 02:44 PM
 
5,309 posts, read 3,426,943 times
Reputation: 2094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
See, the problem is you are picking 2 areas that dont represent every suburb and city in the country.

Contrast that to my data that compares every suburb to every city, and you see a different picture.

I am surprised this is all you came up with. I didnt expect much, since all data will generally support my view, but what you presented is downright pathetic. I guess there really is no data supporting your claim. Sorry, the situation for the suburbs is even worse than I though.
Fine, More Ok
Estimated median household income in 2009: $28,300 (it was $24,820 in 2000)

Hartford:
$28,300
Connecticut:
$67,034


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Hartfo...#ixzz1nQqqe5a6

Estimated median household income in 2009: $37,619 (it was $26,867 in 2000)

Providence:
$37,619
Rhode Island:
$54,119


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Provid...#ixzz1nQr6EMFk

Estimated median household income in 2009: $37,045 (it was $30,746 in 2000)

Philadelphia:
$37,045
Pennsylvania:
$49,520


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Philad...#ixzz1nQrh6uQX

even NYC
Estimated median household income in 2009: $50,033 (it was $38,293 in 2000)

New York (city):
$50,033
New York (state):
$54,659


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Yo...#ixzz1nQs8bFRi
 
Old 02-25-2012, 02:59 PM
 
6,352 posts, read 3,495,428 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Fine, More Ok
Estimated median household income in 2009: $28,300 (it was $24,820 in 2000)

Hartford:
$28,300
Connecticut:
$67,034


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Hartfo...#ixzz1nQqqe5a6

Estimated median household income in 2009: $37,619 (it was $26,867 in 2000)

Providence:
$37,619
Rhode Island:
$54,119


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Provid...#ixzz1nQr6EMFk

Estimated median household income in 2009: $37,045 (it was $30,746 in 2000)

Philadelphia:
$37,045
Pennsylvania:
$49,520


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Philad...#ixzz1nQrh6uQX

even NYC
Estimated median household income in 2009: $50,033 (it was $38,293 in 2000)

New York (city):
$50,033
New York (state):
$54,659


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Yo...#ixzz1nQs8bFRi
Did you not listen to what I said? THese states have more than 1 city. They also have rural areas. Your data might be relevant if these few cities represented all of America, they were the only cities in the states you mentioned, and the rest of the state is all suburbs.

Did you even consider that these cities income is probably included in the state median income? So lets say NYC is $50,333 and NYS is $54,659. A big chunk of NYS lives in NYC so the NYC is increasing the state income. You need to calculate what the state income would be not including that city for that information to be relevant. Than you need to figure out what the suburban median income is for all areas of a state.

I mean if you really want to spend dozens of hours doing so you could probably do this, but chances are this information already exists. Oh wait it does I linked to it earlier.
 
Old 02-25-2012, 03:02 PM
 
5,309 posts, read 3,426,943 times
Reputation: 2094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Did you not listen to what I said? THese states have more than 1 city. They also have rural areas. Your data might be relevant if these few cities represented all of America, they were the only cities in the states you mentioned, and the rest of the state is all suburbs.

Did you even consider that these cities income is probably included in the state median income? So lets say NYC is $50,333 and NYS is $54,659. A big chunk of NYS lives in NYC so the NYC is increasing the state income. You need to calculate what the state income would be not including that city for that information to be relevant. Than you need to figure out what the suburban median income is for all areas of a state.

I mean if you really want to spend dozens of hours doing so you could probably do this, but chances are this information already exists. Oh wait it does I linked to it earlier.
Um if NYC has 8,500,000 people whose average is below NYS average, that means without NYC, NYS would be richer.
 
Old 02-25-2012, 03:17 PM
 
6,352 posts, read 3,495,428 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Um if NYC has 8,500,000 people whose average is below NYS average, that means without NYC, NYS would be richer.
Not necessarily.

You are assuming that on average the rest of NY is richer than NYC in per capita income, which may or may not be the case.

Much of the state could be poorer, thus bringing the income down. You need to realize that the NYS average includes NYC and it may have a higher average than other areas of the state actually bringing the state average up. That is why you need to understand the data in statistics instead of looking at just numbers.
 
Old 02-25-2012, 03:19 PM
 
5,309 posts, read 3,426,943 times
Reputation: 2094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Not necessarily.

You are assuming that on average the rest of NY is richer than NYC in per capita income, which may or may not be the case.

Much of the state could be poorer, thus bringing the income down. You need to realize that the NYS average includes NYC and it may have a higher average than other areas of the state actually bringing the state average up. That is why you need to understand the data in statistics instead of looking at just numbers.
No the Average income is HIGHER in NYS than NYC, so therefore NYC brings DOWN the average income of NYS
 
Old 02-25-2012, 03:25 PM
 
6,352 posts, read 3,495,428 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
No the Average income is HIGHER in NYS than NYC, so therefore NYC brings DOWN the average income of NYS
The average income in NYS includes NYC income, which may be making it higher. Like I said to figure out whether or not it is increasing or decreasing the income you need to figure out what the NYS average would be NOT including NYC.

Even then your point is still irrelevant because the topic is why suburbs have more poverty than cities. NYC is hardly the only city in the state, and the rest of the state is NOT only suburbs. Finally having a median income doesnt necessarily mean an area has more or less poverty.

My point is your statistics are useless to the situation and you need to do a lot more sampling before you can make any claim.

I have shown, with statistics, how/why suburbs have more poverty than cities. Not just one city, but in the nation as a whole by taking into account EVERY city and suburb. I didnt compare one suburb to one city, or a suburb to a state, because that would have been useless.

Now I suggest you come back with some relevant data.
 
Old 02-25-2012, 03:30 PM
 
5,309 posts, read 3,426,943 times
Reputation: 2094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
The average income in NYS includes NYC income, which may be making it higher. Like I said to figure out whether or not it is increasing or decreasing the income you need to figure out what the NYS average would be NOT including NYC.

Even then your point is still irrelevant because the topic is why suburbs have more poverty than cities. NYC is hardly the only city in the state, and the rest of the state is NOT only suburbs. Finally having a median income doesnt necessarily mean an area has more or less poverty.

My point is your statistics are useless to the situation and you need to do a lot more sampling before you can make any claim.

I have shown, with statistics, how/why suburbs have more poverty than cities. Not just one city, but in the nation as a whole by taking into account EVERY city and suburb. I didnt compare one suburb to one city, or a suburb to a state, because that would have been useless.

Now I suggest you come back with some relevant data.
NYC has a lower income than NYS, so it can't possibly raise the average of NYS, it doesn't work that way

If you have 100 people and there average Income is $100,000 and 40 peoples average income is $75,000 doesnt the other 60 have to have a higher than $100,000 otherwise the average wouldn't be $100,000
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