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Old 02-17-2012, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by citylove101 View Post
Consider Staten Island here in NYC.

Really.

It has long been the most politically and socially conservative borough of the city, and has grown over the years as many white Catholic families fled decaying neighborhoods in Brooklyn. It is very family oriented and mostly middle and working class (lots of city workers live here), although you can find reltaively small amounts of housing projects as well as multi-million dollar mansions. The Catholic presence is large, and there are defintely Catholic school options. As for universities there is a branch of St. John's there, as well as secular schools like Staten Island College (part of CUNY) and Wagner College. And of course there's a wealth of colleges in general in metro NYC, Catholic and otherwise. There are also plenty of parks and beaches too, so that's nice.

And unlike the rest of NYC, housing prices are still for the normal person. I'd guess that from 350 to 400 you can get a very nice single family or townhouse there--prices that are far below what you'll find anywhere else in NYC. And you could probably still find something acceptable for a family at a lower price point.

Only drawback might be the public transport part. SI is defintely more car-dependant than the rest of NYC as it is, in many places, almost suburban and low-density. There is a decent bus system, but only one rail line that runs the length of the island. Of course there's also the Staten Island Ferry, which runs (free) to lower Manhattan 24/7. There are also various express bus routes to Manhattan and Brooklyn if you need to commute for work. But the tolls to drive across the bridges into NJ or Brooklyn are a constant sore point to those living on "The Rock" as natives call the place.

Give it some thought. Staten Island is definitely not bright lights, big city New York. The hipster presence is close to nil. Hell , not too many years ago there was even a semi-serious movement there to secede from New York City. Defintely a place that's in the big liberal city--but not of it.
I've been told that parts of Brooklyn, like Dyker Heights and Bay Ridge, would be good fits. But isn't Brooklyn now full of hipsters?
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:41 PM
 
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st. louis is not politically or socially conservative. it's actually among the most liberal cities in america.
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Old 02-17-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Location: New York NY
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Originally Posted by GoneNative View Post
I've been told that parts of Brooklyn, like Dyker Heights and Bay Ridge, would be good fits. But isn't Brooklyn now full of hipsters?
Bay Ridge IIRC is the only neighborhood in all of New York City outside of Staten Island that regularly votes Republican in local, state and national elections. (Though it may have gone blue in 2008. I don't have the numbers.) So that brand of conservatism is certainly there, along with a reasonable (for New York ) cost of living. Socially, I can't say how conservative it is, but the times I've been there, stopping during long bike rides, it seems more eclectic demographically than iin past years as more Asian and Arab immigrants appear to have moved in. Dyker Heights I don't know about.

In general, Brooklyn is NOT filled with hipsters. They gather in certain neighborhoods like Williamsburg (hipster central), Greenpoint, or Red Hook, with smaller numbers in Ft. Greene, Clinton Hill, and Windsor Terrace. Most places I know of its either a feast of hipsters or a famine with not a lot in between.
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slengel View Post
st. louis is not politically or socially conservative. it's actually among the most liberal cities in america.
is this only based on people who vote Democrat? If that makes a city liberal, then Detroit & Birmingham are liberal as well.

I used the 2004 MO vote on same-sex marriage as an example because it's a socially liberal vs socially conservative issue. I realize it's not the only issue though.

The results show that even though the city voted 80% Democrat that year, and the county voted 55% Democrat, 47% of the city still voted against SSM, and 60% of the county voted against it. So the percentage of Democrats doesn't necessarily correlate with the percentage of people in support of SSM (the social liberals, if you will). In fact, in the county those percentages were inversely correlated.

Yes, I realize that that was almost 10 years ago (wow, time has flown by) and the percentage of people in support of SSM has undoubtedly grown, but if you look at the percentages of truly socially liberal cities around that time when people were voting on SSM, you'll see that St. Louis City & County look moderate, even conservative in comparison. For example, the county where Portland OR is located voted 60% in support of it. And the percentage for the city by itself is definitely higher. Those numbers reflect a truly socially liberal city. St. Louis' numbers do not.

No socially liberal city would vote 58% against SSM (STL city & county combined). And how is it that "among the most liberal cities in America" voted 47% against it? You could say that the city by itself leans socially liberal, but when do we ever talk about St. Louis as just the city itself? Only when it's convenient? Only when talking about crime statistics? When most people talk about St. Louis, they're talking about the city & county. And together, they're socially moderate. The rest of the metro area might even tip it to socially conservative because most of the surrounding counties are conservative, even if some vote Democrat.

And to the OP. I read in another thread that you have lived in St. Louis before. So does it not fit your criteria. It seems like it matches them more than most cities. Does it have too many hipsters, not enough Catholics? Is it not conservative enough for you?

Last edited by Smtchll; 02-17-2012 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:30 PM
 
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democratic voters do not automatically mean socially liberal, although the city of st. louis is still indeed a very liberal place, despite the same-sex marriage vote 10 years ago. remember, california voted 52% against gay marriage in 2010 (yes on Prop 8) and no one would call that state conservative. almost every state that has legalized gay marriage did so via judicial ruling, not popular vote. so when you look at it that way, it's actually quite impressive that st. louis city voted against a ban on gay marriage (the only locale in the state to do so). st. louis was the first major city in the midwest to enact a domestic partnership registry for same-sex couples (two years before chicago). it also is consistently ranked one of the best cities for homosexuals. according to this study, st. louis is the 20th most liberal city in the country, based on various criteria.

the immediate st. louis area leans liberal, while the outer stretches of the metro area tend to lean conservative; this scenario applies to pretty much every major metro area in the united states.

Last edited by slengel; 02-17-2012 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slengel View Post
democratic voters do not automatically mean socially liberal, although the city of st. louis is still indeed a very liberal place, despite the same-sex marriage vote 10 years ago. remember, california voted 52% against gay marriage in 2010 and no one would call that state conservative. st. louis was the first major city in the midwest to enact a domestic partnership registry for same-sex couples (two years before chicago). it also is consistently ranked one of the best cities for homosexuals. according to this study, st. louis is the 20th most liberal city in the country, based on various criteria.

the immediate st. louis area leans liberal, while the outer stretches of the metro area tend to lean conservative; this scenario applies to pretty much every major metro area in the united states.
California is moderate. It's the largest cities that are socially liberal. So I think that vote still reflects its social-political climate. It's a socially moderate state, where the biggest cities are socially liberal. Whereas MO is a socially conservative state where the biggest cities are socially moderate.

And the domestic partnership may have been enacted but still 47% of the people voted against SSM. Actually, most people who voted in the general election didn't even bother to vote on that issue. You'd think that if it were a very socially liberal city, then lots of people would vote in support of SSM. Most people didn't care. And true, most SSM legalization doesn't get passed based on popular vote, but you can look at most liberal cities and see that a clear majority of the population voted for it. In St. Louis it was a very slight majority.

That list has Detroit, Gary, and Birmingham ahead of St. Louis. And it has Detroit as the most liberal city in America. I highly doubt that. That was definitely based on voting patterns. To them, Democrat = liberal.

And yes, I'll agree that St. Louis City is liberal, but I don't think it's "very liberal." And if you focus only on the city, of course it's going to look pretty liberal because of the way the city limits are drawn. Most cities in the US aren't stuck with their original urban core (usually where the most liberal-minded people live) St. Louis City has a unique situation, so when you compare it to other cities with anything (crime, politics, population, etc) it takes a little more careful explanation.
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slengel View Post
st. louis is not politically or socially conservative. it's actually among the most liberal cities in america.
The point was made that St. Louis has a strong Democratic-lean when it comes to electoral politics. But having lived there for a short period of time, I would actually tend to agree that it is relatively conservative socially and moderate politically. Much of North County and the east side are blue-collar union Democrat while South County, West County, and especially St. Charles County were all very conservative. The city itself is indeed liberal, but nothing like Seattle, Boston, or other truly liberal cities.
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Type O Negtive View Post
Dallas, Dallas, Dallas! Except the public transport. I love the DFW area and will be moving back in June...counting the days.
I thought about Dallas, too. But I'm just afraid that the influx of new residents has totally changed the place to something virtually unrecognizable to someone who lived there a decade or two ago. It may not be long before Texas is a "swing state."
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:00 PM
 
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hey, GoneNative, did you not see my question in my other post?

"And to the OP. I read in another thread that you have lived in St. Louis before. So does it not fit your criteria. It seems like it matches them more than most cities. Does it have too many hipsters, not enough Catholics? Is it not conservative enough for you?"
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
hey, GoneNative, did you not see my question in my other post?

"And to the OP. I read in another thread that you have lived in St. Louis before. So does it not fit your criteria. It seems like it matches them more than most cities. Does it have too many hipsters, not enough Catholics? Is it not conservative enough for you?"
I apologize about that. Actually I love St. Louis and there's not a whole lot about it that I would change. I also agree that it probably fits the bill a little better than most other places.

Here's what I would change. I would prefer St. Louis to be a little bigger, more conservative, and I'd also prefer that it be a little more "new money" rather than "old money." I love West County, for example, but I could do without the older money parts between 170 and 270. Nowhere is perfect, though, and St. Louis may indeed be the best fit.
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