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Either way Maryland and Delaware are Southern States........
Forget about what DC and Baltimore look like because they don't Define the Entire state of Maryland and Delaware.........
They (along with Virginia) are border states, and probably fit together well with the Mid Atlantic definition...but they in no way feel Southern to me. Not in this day in age. Historically? Sure. Southern today? No.
They (along with Virginia) are border states, and probably fit together well with the Mid Atlantic definition...but they in no way feel Southern to me. Not in this day in age. Historically? Sure. Southern today? No.
Again that is your opinion which won't ever take away the FACT that Maryland and Delaware are Southern States........
And if you think Maryland is a Northern then so is the Entire state of Virginia, and Florida is its own region separated from the other southern states and Texas is totally a Southwest State......
I agree that New Orleans is definitely Southern. Absolutely.
The box I gave an example of is not absolute...New Orleans and Baton Rouge definitely strike me as very Southern. When including the I-55 line to I-10, I had NOLA in mind.
The exclusion of the rest of Louisiana and Arkansas wasn't as much to say they aren't as Southern....really more of a problem with the interstate system not having a direct connection from Little Rock to, say, Lafayette.
And I did include Dallas, Houston, and Oklahoma City in the periphery South...I think they are Southern...but closer to the border...so they have other influences as well. That's all.
It's really just an example using interstates...of course it cuts out some very Southern areas in Southern Kentucky and Virginia...just sort of an idea of what the "interior" South is.
I am going to quibble and say they are on the periphery of the SouthEAST. Those areas west to the border with New Mexico are still essentially Southern (religion, settlement patterns, dialect, politics, overall traditions, etc), they just contain a frontier western element -- the sub-region "western South" if you will -- not found in the other parts of the South. (Let me note this designation does not include the trans-pecos which is clearly the desert/interior Southwest, and parts of far south Texas are "iffy" anymore...).
The south starts in Virginia... although you will see some southern mannerisms in pockets of PA, DE, and NJ. The farthest north I've heard southern-esque accents:
A few people in Nottingham, PA
A guy I met from Clayton, NJ
A guy I met from Sussex Co, DE.
However, these people are minorities, even in their areas.
You don't get majority southern until past Washington, D.C.
There is a GRAY transitional area. The area begins, IMHO in Central Virginia, and goes up into the bottom of the southern counties of PA, splits New Castle County, DE, and continues along Rte. 40 in New Jersey.
The bottom of the transition being more southern than northern, and the top of the line being northern, with some southern reminders here and there.
Once you hit Newark, DE/Glassboro, NJ/ Oxford, PA, going north, there is a negligible amount of southern characteristics. Even in Southern DE and Deep South Jersey/Northern MD, you're hard pressed to find southern attitude.
I think you're putting too much emphasis on the dialectical aspects. People in the NJ, DE, MD and PA areas you're referring to sometimes have a Midland draw; but it certainly a far cry from a Southern accent.
The cultural aspects are also starkly different to even denote a "transition" area. When you account for aspects such as religious affiliation, racial demographics, built environment (the mid-Atlantic has distinct rowhouse architecture and even small towns tend to be fairly densely built), I honestly don't detect anything resembling Southern.
Having lived in the DC area, I don't believe that any North-to-South cultural transition would not begin until one reaches the Northern Virginia exurbs. In my view, by the time you've hit Richmond, you're definitely in Southern territory.
I'm born and raised in the bootheel of Missouri and we are southern born and bred an proud of it, the whole bootheel is dominated by agriculture. It's just a bunch of small towns. We have all fixings you'd find in Arkansas, most of us claim Arkansas, hell most of us have family in Arkansas. I've never classified myself as mid western. I've always been quick to correct someone that claims I'm midwestern, but usually they know better as soon as they hear me speak! I know that parts of Kentucky is also the south, and there are some exceptions above highway 60 in Missouri but only a few small towns just north of 60.
As far as real "boundaries" go, the South is concretely defined as any of the 11 states that seceded. This includes: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina. As far as Kentucky and Missouri go, the CSA wanted MO and KY, but both MO's and KY's governments voted against it--more than once. In fact, the Confederate flag has stars that represent MO and KY.
Culturally, if a state borders a Southern State, that Southern culture and dialect bleeds into the Non-Southern State and vise versa.
As far as the "Texas as a Deep South/Southern State" debate (I am Texan and a proud Southerner--not the pro-CSA type, I might add! I must address it): Texas is definitely Southern. Texas seceded to join the CSA. It also was, and still is, heavily agricultural and as a whole, the Texan culture is definitely Southern, as is the accent (with the exception of Houston. Sorry.). Many think of Texas as a "Desert Southwest State", but that is wrong. Less than 10% of Texas is Desert and I have lived in the Southwest and their culture is very different.
As far as real "boundaries" go, the South is concretely defined as any of the 11 states that seceded. This includes: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina. As far as Kentucky and Missouri go, the CSA wanted MO and KY, but both MO's and KY's governments voted against it--more than once. In fact, the Confederate flag has stars that represent MO and KY.
Culturally, if a state borders a Southern State, that Southern culture and dialect bleeds into the Non-Southern State and vise versa.
As far as the "Texas as a Deep South/Southern State" debate (I am Texan and a proud Southerner--not the pro-CSA type, I might add! I must address it): Texas is definitely Southern. Texas seceded to join the CSA. It also was, and still is, heavily agricultural and as a whole, the Texan culture is definitely Southern, as is the accent (with the exception of Houston. Sorry.). Many think of Texas as a "Desert Southwest State", but that is wrong. Less than 10% of Texas is Desert and I have lived in the Southwest and their culture is very different.
Wait what? You're saying the Houstonian accent isn't Southern?
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,092,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityJunkie
As far as real "boundaries" go, the South is concretely defined as any of the 11 states that seceded. This includes: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina. As far as Kentucky and Missouri go, the CSA wanted MO and KY, but both MO's and KY's governments voted against it--more than once. In fact, the Confederate flag has stars that represent MO and KY.
Culturally, if a state borders a Southern State, that Southern culture and dialect bleeds into the Non-Southern State and vise versa.
As far as the "Texas as a Deep South/Southern State" debate (I am Texan and a proud Southerner--not the pro-CSA type, I might add! I must address it): Texas is definitely Southern. Texas seceded to join the CSA. It also was, and still is, heavily agricultural and as a whole, the Texan culture is definitely Southern, as is the accent (with the exception of Houston. Sorry.). Many think of Texas as a "Desert Southwest State", but that is wrong. Less than 10% of Texas is Desert and I have lived in the Southwest and their culture is very different.
Kentucky conformed to Southern culture at the end of the Civil War and essentially became a Southern state, while Missouri severed many, but not all, of its ties to the South and essentially became more Midwestern.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02
Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri (below I-44) and Florida minus the Miami metro are also very much the South.
I would say I-44 is a relevant boundary up to about Rolla. After that it is certainly not the Southern boundary of the South. The South does not extend into the St. Louis area, Franklin County, Jefferson County, Ste Genevieve County, Perry County, and Cape Girardeau County (at and above Cape Girardeau).
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